Bush Blew It the Morning of 9/11

[LMN]

John Kerry has waded into an issue raised by Michael Moore in his film
"Fahrenheit 9/11," namely, President Bush's sitting for seven minutes in a
Florida classroom after being told "the country is under attack." Republicans
are waxing indignant, of course. But the criticism is richly deserved.
The fact that Bush wasted 27 minutes that day - not only the seven minutes
reading to kids but 20 more at a photo op afterward - was, in my view, the most
outrageous thing a President has done since Franklin Roosevelt tried to pack the
Supreme Court.

Watergate was outrageous but it still did not carry the possibility of utter
devastation, like a President's freezing at the very moment we needed his
immediate focus on an attack on the United States.

This is an issue about the ultimate presidential duty, acting in an emergency.
If nothing else in Washington is nonpartisan, this should be.

But it is not. Republicans are tying themselves in knots trying to defend Bush's
actions that morning. The excuses they put forward are absurd:

He was "gathering his thoughts." This was a moment a President should have
imagined a thousand times. There is no time in the nuclear age for a President
to sit like Forrest Gump "gathering thoughts" after an attack has begun.
Gathering information is what he should have been doing.
From the White House press secretary: "The President felt he should project
strength and calm until he could better understand what was happening." I agree
that gaining a better understanding of what was happening should have been his
goal. What I don't get is how that goal was reached by just sitting there
instead of getting up and talking to people. Is he a psychic? Was he receiving
the information telepathically?
"He didn't want to scare the children." Vice President Cheney has said of Kerry,
"The senator from Massachusetts has given us ample reason to doubt the judgment
he brings to vital issues of national security." So Kerry's judgment is suspect,
but at a moment of national crisis, Bush's judgment was: Better not to scare 20
children momentarily than to react immediately to an attack on the country!
If he had just said, "Hey, kids, gotta go do some President business - be good
to your moms and dads, bye!" my guess is the kids would have survived.

I cannot see how someone who considers himself a conservative can defend George
Bush's inaction. Conservatives pride themselves on being clear-eyed and
decisive. They don't do nuance, and they respect toughness.

But Bush choked at the most important moment a President could have. We're lucky
Al Qaeda had done its worst by the time he pulled himself away from the photo
op. Next time, it might not be that way.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/story/221433p-190107c.html

[duke]

Post by LMN
John Kerry has waded into an issue raised by Michael Moore in his film
"Fahrenheit 9/11," namely, President Bush's sitting for seven minutes in a
Florida classroom after being told "the country is under attack." Republicans
are waxing indignant, of course.

Say, buddy, how do you know he wasn't told to sit by for a few minutes. After all, they
had to react to the possibility that there was more coming, and there was in Washington,
so the Secret Service had to make plans for a deviation.

You poor atheists really do come up short on planning.

Post by LMN
Watergate was outrageous but it still did not carry the possibility of utter
devastation, like a President's freezing at the very moment we needed his
immediate focus on an attack on the United States.

In what way was the President hindered? He had world wide communications at his fingers
in the classroom.

NOt a bright concern on your part.

Post by LMN
This is an issue about the ultimate presidential duty, acting in an emergency.
If nothing else in Washington is nonpartisan, this should be.

That President Bush did. Say thank you.

Post by LMN
He was "gathering his thoughts." This was a moment a President should have
imagined a thousand times.

Why, when the whole world was taken by surprise?

Post by LMN
I cannot see how someone who considers himself a conservative can defend George
Bush's inaction. Conservatives pride themselves on being clear-eyed and
decisive. They don't do nuance, and they respect toughness.

They again you obviously lack the knowledge to be bright about it.

Either you or one of your equally unknowing buddies suckered you into embarrassing
yourself.

[raven1]

Post by duke

Post by LMN
John Kerry has waded into an issue raised by Michael Moore in his film
"Fahrenheit 9/11," namely, President Bush's sitting for seven minutes in a
Florida classroom after being told "the country is under attack." Republicans
are waxing indignant, of course.

Say, buddy, how do you know he wasn't told to sit by for a few minutes.

Excuse me? Are you insane? "Mr President, the country is under attack,
just sit on your hands and read a children's book, then take some
pictures and ignore what's going on" is hardly a likely response from
anyone with a functioning brain.

Post by duke
After all, they
had to react to the possibility that there was more coming, and there was in Washington,
so the Secret Service had to make plans for a deviation.

The Secret Service would have had to assume by any rational standard
that there was a plane heading right for the President, and get him
out of there immediately. In fact, they wanted to, but were overruled.

Post by duke
You poor atheists really do come up short on planning.

And you come up short on sanity. Sorry, Duke, but what you're
suggesting is ten bricks shy of a full load.

Post by duke

Post by LMN
Watergate was outrageous but it still did not carry the possibility of utter
devastation, like a President's freezing at the very moment we needed his
immediate focus on an attack on the United States.

In what way was the President hindered? He had world wide communications at his fingers
in the classroom.

No, he didn't. That's part of the problem.

Post by duke
NOt a bright concern on your part.

Post by LMN
This is an issue about the ultimate presidential duty, acting in an emergency.
If nothing else in Washington is nonpartisan, this should be.

That President Bush did.

He did no such thing. He sat listening to a children's book instead of
ordering fighters scrambled or *any other course of action at all*. He
did *nothing*. In the military, they'd court martial him for gross
dereliction of duty.

Post by duke
Say thank you.

"Fuck you".

Post by duke

Post by LMN
He was "gathering his thoughts." This was a moment a President should have
imagined a thousand times.

Why, when the whole world was taken by surprise?

Excuse me? My ex happened to be across the street when the planes hit
the WTC, and she figured out *immediately* that we were under attack,
and told her co-workers to get away from the windows and evacuate the
office. What's Bush's excuse?

Post by duke

Post by LMN
I cannot see how someone who considers himself a conservative can defend George
Bush's inaction. Conservatives pride themselves on being clear-eyed and
decisive. They don't do nuance, and they respect toughness.

They again you obviously lack the knowledge to be bright about it.
Either you or one of your equally unknowing buddies suckered you into embarrassing
yourself.

The only thing embarrassing is in actually responding to such idiocy,
and I won't dignify you with any further attention. Bye, Duke.

<plonk>

[duke]

Post by raven1

Post by duke
Say, buddy, how do you know he wasn't told to sit by for a few minutes.

Excuse me? Are you insane? "Mr President, the country is under attack,
just sit on your hands and read a children's book, then take some
pictures and ignore what's going on" is hardly a likely response from
anyone with a functioning brain.

When the country sustains a blow of unparallel and unexpected proportions, it's wise to
stay in place. Idiots run out screaming "the sky is falling, the sky is falling". It has
nothing to do with reading to children, but to stay put for a few minutes until the fog
settles and a realistic and safe decision is made.

That should not be too hard for you to comprehend.

Post by raven1

Post by duke
After all, they
had to react to the possibility that there was more coming, and there was in Washington,
so the Secret Service had to make plans for a deviation.

The Secret Service would have had to assume by any rational standard
that there was a plane heading right for the President, and get him
out of there immediately. In fact, they wanted to, but were overruled.

And??? It was a totally unexpected and unparalleled event. Some say go, some say wait.
Sounder heads prevailed.

Post by raven1

Post by duke
You poor atheists really do come up short on planning.

And you come up short on sanity. Sorry, Duke, but what you're
suggesting is ten bricks shy of a full load.

So what would you have told him to do if you were in charge of security?

Post by raven1

Post by duke
In what way was the President hindered? He had world wide communications at his fingers
in the classroom.

No, he didn't. That's part of the problem.

Oh, give it a break. All communications have temporary glitches. The President goes
nowhere's without full communications.

Post by raven1

Post by duke

Post by LMN
This is an issue about the ultimate presidential duty, acting in an emergency.
If nothing else in Washington is nonpartisan, this should be.

That President Bush did.

He did no such thing. He sat listening to a children's book instead of
ordering fighters scrambled or *any other course of action at all*. He
did *nothing*. In the military, they'd court martial him for gross
dereliction of duty.

No he didn't. He held position. A very wise thing to do for a few minutes.

Post by raven1

Post by duke
Say thank you.

"Fuck you".

Gotcha.

Post by raven1

Post by duke

Post by LMN
He was "gathering his thoughts." This was a moment a President should have
imagined a thousand times.

Why, when the whole world was taken by surprise?

Excuse me?

You're excused.

Post by raven1
My ex happened to be across the street when the planes hit
the WTC, and she figured out *immediately* that we were under attack,
and told her co-workers to get away from the windows and evacuate the
office. What's Bush's excuse?

Yet your x was not responsible for what was coming next. President Bush was. Sounder
heads prevailed.

Post by raven1
The only thing embarrassing is in actually responding to such idiocy,
and I won't dignify you with any further attention. Bye, Duke.

So long turkey. Remember, plonking is for those that lack the ability to participate in a
discussion and not be embarrassed.

[H.D.S]

Post by duke

Post by LMN
John Kerry has waded into an issue raised by Michael Moore in his film
"Fahrenheit 9/11," namely, President Bush's sitting for seven minutes
in a Florida classroom after being told "the country is under attack."
Republicans are waxing indignant, of course.

Say, buddy, how do you know he wasn't told to sit by for a few
minutes.

LOL, who has the authority to tell the president of the united states to
sit idley by while the nation he was put in charge of protecting is under
attack?

Post by duke
After all, they had to react to the possibility that there
was more coming, and there was in Washington, so the Secret Service
had to make plans for a deviation.

So you think being stationary in an undefended school is the best place
for the most important person in america to be?

DO you really think it takes 27 minutes for the secret service to take
their thimbs out of their asses and respond?

Post by duke
You poor atheists really do come up short on planning.

You are one sad individual if you can't look past your blind hate for
atheists to realize that this is a political discussion and not
religious, moron.

Post by duke

Post by LMN
Watergate was outrageous but it still did not carry the possibility of
utter devastation, like a President's freezing at the very moment we
needed his immediate focus on an attack on the United States.

In what way was the President hindered? He had world wide
communications at his fingers in the classroom.

Really, dipshit?

You think that when the nation is at DEFCON 1 the ideal place for a
president to be is in a elementary school classroom?

How can you be so fucking stupid?

Post by duke

Post by LMN
This is an issue about the ultimate presidential duty, acting in an
emergency. If nothing else in Washington is nonpartisan, this should
be.

That President Bush did. Say thank you.

After his photo shoot and the death of some 400 airline passengers!

Post by duke

Post by LMN
He was "gathering his thoughts." This was a moment a President should
have imagined a thousand times.

Why, when the whole world was taken by surprise?

The means may have been novel but his lack of immediate action was
inexcusable!

His ass should have been off that chair immediately, apologized to the
class and news reporters and left to the nearest command post!

Post by duke

Post by LMN
I cannot see how someone who considers himself a conservative can
defend George Bush's inaction. Conservatives pride themselves on being
clear-eyed and decisive. They don't do nuance, and they respect
toughness.

They again you obviously lack the knowledge to be bright about it.

Ohh, I guess that means conservatives are pussies who fall to their knees
at the drop of a hat. Why the hell would you disagree with his statement
moron, is it to weaken your already ludicrious apology for the
president's failure to react?

[Brian Westley]

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke

Post by LMN
John Kerry has waded into an issue raised by Michael Moore in his film
"Fahrenheit 9/11," namely, President Bush's sitting for seven minutes
in a Florida classroom after being told "the country is under attack."
Republicans are waxing indignant, of course.

Say, buddy, how do you know he wasn't told to sit by for a few
minutes.

LOL, who has the authority to tell the president of the united states to
sit idley by while the nation he was put in charge of protecting is under
attack?

Especially since the circumstances are on videotape, and Andrew
Card, Bush's chief of staff, is seen on the tape talking to Bush
for a few seconds, and he's on the record as to exactly what he
said to Bush:

"And then word came that a second plane had hit and that the first plane
was a jetliner and the second plane was a jetliner," Card recalled. "And
I remember thinking to myself, what would I want to know if I were the
president?"

He decided Bush must be told quickly, carefully.

"I tried to be very, very efficient with my words, and I was consciously
efficient. I said, 'A second plane hit the second tower. America is
under attack."'

Card did his job by informing the president immediately.
Bush then chose to fiddle while NYC burned.

---
Merlyn LeRoy

[duke]

Post by Brian Westley
Card did his job by informing the president immediately.
Bush then chose to fiddle while NYC burned.

Good playback. But what is 27 minutes worth while letting the fog clear when you have
instant communications and control of the military situation as well as possible. No
body knew what else was getting ready to happen. For all you know, there could have been
an infinite number of continuing events starting to happen. What good is done for those
27 minutes by running out screaming "the sky is falling".

He did the exact right thing. Let the fog clear a bit than take a thought out action.

duke
*****
1 Corinthians 4
15Even though you have ten thousand guardians in
Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ
Jesus I became your father through the gospel.
*****

[Brian Westley]

Post by duke

Post by Brian Westley
Card did his job by informing the president immediately.
Bush then chose to fiddle while NYC burned.

Good playback. But what is 27 minutes worth while letting the fog clear when you have
instant communications and control of the military situation as well as possible. No
body knew what else was getting ready to happen. For all you know, there could have been
an infinite number of continuing events starting to happen. What good is done for those
27 minutes by running out screaming "the sky is falling".

Right. When hijacked planes have already been flown into two buildings,
and two more are known to be hijacked, it's best for the only person who
can order them to be shot down to sit on his worthless ass and do nothing
for half an hour.

Are you really a Democratic mole trying to make Bush supporters
look unbelievably dense? Because it's working.

---
Merlyn LeRoy

[Budikka]

Post by duke
He did the exact right thing. Let the fog clear a bit
than take a thought out action.

News flash: The fog has never cleared - not in your brain and not in
Bush's. What was this "thought out action"? Go invade Iraq on the
lie that they have nuclear and chemical weapons they can use within 45
minutes and needlessly kill 10,000 Iraqi civilians and 1,000 American
soldiers?

Budikka

[JTEM]

Post by Budikka
News flash: The fog has never cleared - not in your brain
and not in Bush's. What was this "thought out action"?
Go invade Iraq on the lie that they have nuclear and
chemical weapons they can use within 45 minutes and
needlessly kill 10,000 Iraqi civilians and 1,000 American
soldiers?

Don't be silly! That would be a flip-flop, as Bush said
many, many (many, many, many, many, many) times that
he would *Never* support "nation building." Bush stood
firm against the idea of using U.S. forces to bring democracy
to foreign nations.

And, oh, he also supported a states "right" to perform gay
marriages, that he was against budget deficits and that his
tax give-aways would primarily go to the middle class.

[H.D.S]

Post by JTEM

Post by Budikka
News flash: The fog has never cleared - not in your brain
and not in Bush's. What was this "thought out action"?
Go invade Iraq on the lie that they have nuclear and
chemical weapons they can use within 45 minutes and
needlessly kill 10,000 Iraqi civilians and 1,000 American
soldiers?

Don't be silly! That would be a flip-flop, as Bush said
many, many (many, many, many, many, many) times that
he would *Never* support "nation building." Bush stood
firm against the idea of using U.S. forces to bring democracy
to foreign nations.
And, oh, he also supported a states "right" to perform gay
marriages, that he was against budget deficits and that his
tax give-aways would primarily go to the middle class.

Bush, the model President.

[Budikka]

Post by JTEM
Don't be silly! That would be a flip-flop, as Bush said
many, many (many, many, many, many, many) times that
he would *Never* support "nation building." Bush stood
firm against the idea of using U.S. forces to bring democracy
to foreign nations.
And, oh, he also supported a states "right" to perform gay
marriages, that he was against budget deficits and that his
tax give-aways would primarily go to the middle class.

Whatever it is that you're smoking, I want some! ;)

B.

[duke]

Post by H.D.S
LOL, who has the authority to tell the president of the united states to
sit idley by while the nation he was put in charge of protecting is under
attack?

Authority? Responsibility - yes.

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke
After all, they had to react to the possibility that there
was more coming, and there was in Washington, so the Secret Service
had to make plans for a deviation.

So you think being stationary in an undefended school is the best place
for the most important person in america to be?

So you think him running out screaming "I'll save the country, I'll save the country" was
the right thing to do? Rather than go into a defensive posture for 27 crummy minutes
waiting for the protective screens to be set up and the best move to make was being
reviewed and finalized?

Let me guess - you think it's better for you to die for your country rather than your
enemy die for his. Right?

Post by H.D.S
DO you really think it takes 27 minutes for the secret service to take
their thimbs out of their asses and respond?

For a totally unexpected and unprecedented act of war - yep. Question - how long did it
take the news media to broadcast nationwide what had just happened?

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke
You poor atheists really do come up short on planning.

You are one sad individual if you can't look past your blind hate for
atheists to realize that this is a political discussion and not
religious, moron.

I don't hate atheists. I do feel very sorry for you that are blind. But when the most
intelligent comment in a discussion that I can get from an atheist is to be addressed as
"moron", then my case is made.

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke
In what way was the President hindered? He had world wide
communications at his fingers in the classroom.

Really, dipshit?

Another deeply throughout response from an atheist.

Post by H.D.S
You think that when the nation is at DEFCON 1 the ideal place for a
president to be is in a elementary school classroom?

Defcon 1? If that means war was occurring, we weren't at defcon 1. If it means the
lowest level of readiness, yep.

Post by H.D.S
How can you be so fucking stupid?

check out your defcon 1 comment above.

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke

Post by LMN
This is an issue about the ultimate presidential duty, acting in an
emergency. If nothing else in Washington is nonpartisan, this should
be.

That President Bush did. Say thank you.

After his photo shoot and the death of some 400 airline passengers!

What is the world are you bleating about now?

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke

Post by LMN
He was "gathering his thoughts." This was a moment a President should
have imagined a thousand times.

Why, when the whole world was taken by surprise?

The means may have been novel but his lack of immediate action was
inexcusable!

WHAT immediate action? You watch too many movies for your education.

Post by H.D.S
His ass should have been off that chair immediately, apologized to the
class and news reporters and left to the nearest command post!

What command post?

Post by H.D.S
Ohh, I guess that means conservatives are pussies who fall to their knees
at the drop of a hat. Why the hell would you disagree with his statement
moron, is it to weaken your already ludicrious apology for the
president's failure to react?

Go play with your toys, kid.

duke
*****
1 Corinthians 4
15Even though you have ten thousand guardians in
Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ
Jesus I became your father through the gospel.
*****

[Shannon Jacobs]

This one is pretty hilarious fantasy. For example: "waiting for the
protective screens to be set up". Total bullshit and fantasy-based spin.
Reading _Against_All_Enemies_ or watching _Fahrenheit_9/11_ would certainly
break his poor little mind.

duke <***@cox.net> wrote:
<snip>

Post by duke
Authority? Responsibility - yes.

<snip>

Post by duke
So you think him running out screaming "I'll save the country, I'll
save the country" was the right thing to do? Rather than go into a
defensive posture for 27 crummy minutes waiting for the protective
screens to be set up and the best move to make was being reviewed
and finalized?
Let me guess - you think it's better for you to die for your
country rather than your enemy die for his. Right?

<snip>

Post by duke
For a totally unexpected and unprecedented act of war - yep.
Question - how long did it take the news media to broadcast
nationwide what had just happened?

<snip>

Post by duke
I don't hate atheists. I do feel very sorry for you that are
blind. But when the most intelligent comment in a discussion that
I can get from an atheist is to be addressed as "moron", then my
case is made.

<snip>

Post by duke
Another deeply throughout response from an atheist.

<snip>

Post by duke
Defcon 1? If that means war was occurring, we weren't at defcon
1. If it means the lowest level of readiness, yep.

<snip>

Post by duke
check out your defcon 1 comment above.

<snip>

Post by duke
What is the world are you bleating about now?

<snip>

Post by duke
WHAT immediate action? You watch too many movies for your
education.

<snip>

Post by duke
What command post?

<snip>

Post by duke
Go play with your toys, kid.
duke
*****
1 Corinthians 4
15Even though you have ten thousand guardians in
Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ
Jesus I became your father through the gospel.
*****

[commutator]

Post by duke

Post by H.D.S
LOL, who has the authority to tell the president of the united states to
sit idley by while the nation he was put in charge of protecting is under
attack?

Authority? Responsibility - yes.

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke
After all, they had to react to the possibility that there
was more coming, and there was in Washington, so the Secret Service
had to make plans for a deviation.

So you think being stationary in an undefended school is the best place
for the most important person in america to be?

So you think him running out screaming "I'll save the country, I'll save the country" was
the right thing to do? Rather than go into a defensive posture for 27 crummy minutes
waiting for the protective screens to be set up and the best move to make was being
reviewed and finalized?

Here's the simlpe point everyone is making and you are not getting. A
school is not a defensive position. It has too many civilians (you
know the children), poor communications (phonelines, internet, usually
only one source of power, no generator) and it is unfortified. More
importantly everyone knew Bush was there therefore if an attack was on
it was pretty safe to assume a run for the prez would be aimed at the
White house and that school. Knowing this the secret service
requested authority to remove the prez immediately but were denied
(although the prez could have given that authority he was too busy
learning how to read). Also of note for EVERY public event the prez
attends a fall-back point is determined, this is secret service
policy. Whether the point is just another room in the school, a
nearby building or just the vehicle they arrived in (it's
bulletproof!!!)these points are decided so the prez is NOT in a KNOWN
location during an attack.

Secondly the best move did not need to be finalized. There is
basically a protocol in place which says that when airliners become
enemy-controlled and are being used by the enemy than suspect aircraft
should be asked to immediately enter holding patterns, maintain a
certain altitude, proceed to nearest airport and maintain
communications. Aircraft who refuse to comply are expendable (can be
shot down). The problem with the protocol is that the prez must issue
the order, he didn't.

He didn't have to run around like an idiot, all he had to do was issue
the order 'ground all aircraft'. After that he should have assessed
other threats. 'close the border', 'have the coast guard stop all
ships', 'I need to know if any other nations are mobilizing, acting
suspiciously or under attack', etc. At the least open communications
and listen in on what his subordinates were doing rather than sitting
and chilling.

Post by duke
Let me guess - you think it's better for you to die for your country rather than your
enemy die for his. Right?

Post by H.D.S
DO you really think it takes 27 minutes for the secret service to take
their thimbs out of their asses and respond?

For a totally unexpected and unprecedented act of war - yep. Question - how long did it
take the news media to broadcast nationwide what had just happened?

Yeah, the media reacted well. There job was to report news quickly
and they did. His was to act in an emergency and he didn't. And the
point is it was not at all unexpected/unprecendented. They have AA
around the prez because they KNOW this kind of action is possible.
FEMA and others listed hijack as one of the MOST likely forms of
terror attack, along with train derailment, smuggling in of CBW,
detonation of CBW via aircraft above targets, etc. As prez the
actions to take are clear.

1. Get to secure location
2. Get general information - i.e. what's happended?
3. Order actions that provide immediate relief (ground aircraft,
mobilize HAZMAT, issue an alert to citizens in X to take X
precautions, etc. depending on the scenario.
4. Gather more intel, meet with other important people of Gov or at
least get in personal contact with them.
5. Get their suggestions, lend presidential authority if they need it
- i.e. HAZMAT requests permission to quarantine X.
6. Continue gathering info.


It takes time to explain info gathered from one person to another, at
the very least the prez should have excused himself from the
classroom, went next-door and listened to what news was coming in.

Post by duke

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke
You poor atheists really do come up short on planning.

You are one sad individual if you can't look past your blind hate for
atheists to realize that this is a political discussion and not
religious, moron.

I don't hate atheists. I do feel very sorry for you that are blind. But when the most
intelligent comment in a discussion that I can get from an atheist is to be addressed as
"moron", then my case is made.

Names mean nothing, if the only way you can dismiss an argument is
because it has colourful language in it than maybe you just don't have
a real counterpoint.

Post by duke

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke
In what way was the President hindered? He had world wide
communications at his fingers in the classroom.

Really, dipshit?

Another deeply throughout response from an atheist.

He had wireless communications available. These can be jammed. He
should move to a location which does not depend on the battery
operated stuff the secret service is carrying around.

Post by duke

Post by H.D.S
You think that when the nation is at DEFCON 1 the ideal place for a
president to be is in a elementary school classroom?

Defcon 1? If that means war was occurring, we weren't at defcon 1. If it means the
lowest level of readiness, yep.

The point was an ATTACK was occurring with little info on what other
countries were doing if should be considered an act of war until shown
otherwise. He was told America was under attack, he didn't even know
by whom, and he did little to find out. He assumed that everyone
would come and fill him in later and it'll all be good (this is being
VERY generous for the most part I think he just froze). Leaders cannt
freeze and they can't assume that they are not needed. At the least
he should be asking his subordinates "I know you guys know your jobs
so just tell me if there is anything you need my authority to do". If
he asked this than aircraft would have been grounded or taken out
before they hit the pentagon and NO (before you say it) this would not
have gotten innocent airliners taken out. Only two aircraft were not
in contact with their respective air traffic controllers (both
terrorist-controlled).

Post by duke

Post by H.D.S
How can you be so fucking stupid?

check out your defcon 1 comment above.

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke

Post by LMN
This is an issue about the ultimate presidential duty, acting in an
emergency. If nothing else in Washington is nonpartisan, this should
be.

That President Bush did. Say thank you.

After his photo shoot and the death of some 400 airline passengers!

What is the world are you bleating about now?

Say thank you for what? He fucked up, pretty badly on that day.

Post by duke

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke

Post by LMN
He was "gathering his thoughts." This was a moment a President should
have imagined a thousand times.

Why, when the whole world was taken by surprise?

The means may have been novel but his lack of immediate action was
inexcusable!

WHAT immediate action? You watch too many movies for your education.

I listed the things he could have done. It's sad when Harrison Ford
from Executive Decision does a better job than the real prez.

Post by duke

Post by H.D.S
His ass should have been off that chair immediately, apologized to the
class and news reporters and left to the nearest command post!

What command post?

Fall back position, his vehicles, just left the fucking room so he
could talk to his staff about what was going on. There were a lot of
better places to be.

Post by duke

Post by H.D.S
Ohh, I guess that means conservatives are pussies who fall to their knees
at the drop of a hat. Why the hell would you disagree with his statement
moron, is it to weaken your already ludicrious apology for the
president's failure to react?

Go play with your toys, kid.
duke
*****
1 Corinthians 4
15Even though you have ten thousand guardians in
Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ
Jesus I became your father through the gospel.
*****

Seriously Duke, if you were prez at the time would you have sat around
gathering your thoughts, asking no questions nor moving when your aide
spoke into your ear and said "Mr. prez a second airliner has hit the
second tower. America is under attack."? Seriously, put yourself in
that room. Do you honestly think that what Bush did was the best that
could be done?

[Budikka]

Post by duke
So you think him running out screaming "I'll save the country,
I'll save the country" was the right thing to do?

Nobody has suggested that, you fucked-up excuse for an asswipe. Why
can't you get your fogged-up shitbox of a brain to actually deal with
the issue in a message instead of stomping blindly around muddying the
waters? In fact, this same advice ought to have been given to the
president.

Post by duke
Rather than go into a defensive posture for 27 crummy minutes
waiting for the protective screens to be set up and the best
move to make was being reviewed and finalized?

The best move to make was to calmly and quietly get up, announce to
the children that as president, his life is not his own and something
very important has just come up and he must go deal with it. Assure
everyone that it's not something for them to worry about but that it
is something that needs immediate attention, then head for Airforce
One and do his thinking while flying to a secure command location.
**IS THAT TOO FUCKING HARD EVEN FOR YOUR PIGSHIT MIND TO ENCOMPASS,
DUPED**?

Post by duke
Let me guess - you think it's better for you to die for
your country rather than your enemy die for his. Right?

This from the Internet's biggest butthole who claims to be a
"turn-the-other-cheek" Christian? What a fucking vacuous hypocrite
you truly are.

Post by duke

Post by H.D.S
DO you really think it takes 27 minutes for the secret service to take
their thimbs out of their asses and respond?

For a totally unexpected and unprecedented act of war - yep.

Then they're as fucked up as you are.

Post by duke
Question - how long did it
take the news media to broadcast nationwide what had just happened?

Question how the fuck is this relevant to anything? Are you under the
shithead apprehension that the president had to wait to get his advice
from CNN before he could make a move?

Post by duke
I don't hate atheists. I do feel very sorry for you that are blind.

No one is more blind than a clueless shitwad like you who lives so
tightly bound in his pretty little box that he's totally unaware of
the real world outside, where his insignificant "box" is actually
nothing but a bag of shit.

Post by duke
Another deeply throughout response from an atheist.

Don't start down that road if you know what's good for you. I have a
collection of shithead knee-jerk bullshit from you that I could
slather all over this thread.

Post by duke

Post by H.D.S
You think that when the nation is at DEFCON 1 the ideal place for a
president to be is in a elementary school classroom?

Defcon 1? If that means war was occurring, we weren't at defcon 1.
If it means the lowest level of readiness, yep.

Duped doesn't even know what the DefCon system means yet feels
qualified to pontificate about it. Now whether we were technically
set at DefCon 1 is irrelevant given how many times Bush has said we're
fighting a **WAR** against terrorism.

Post by duke
WHAT immediate action? You watch too many movies for your education.

To get the fuck out of there and into a position where he can properly
determine what's going on, and communicate plans and decisions
promptly and directly - namely, on Airforce One, while flying to a
secure command location.

Post by duke
What command post?

That is a classic Duped comment. Always clueless, always out of his
element.

Budikka

[H.D.S]

[snip]

Post by Budikka

Post by duke

Post by H.D.S
You think that when the nation is at DEFCON 1 the ideal place for a
president to be is in a elementary school classroom?

Defcon 1? If that means war was occurring, we weren't at defcon 1.
If it means the lowest level of readiness, yep.

Duped doesn't even know what the DefCon system means yet feels
qualified to pontificate about it. Now whether we were technically
set at DefCon 1 is irrelevant given how many times Bush has said we're
fighting a **WAR** against terrorism.

Multiple people have questiond my claim that the US was at defcon 1 during
the attacks.

Perhaps I was wrong, but I do vividly remember hearing from FoxNews (not
the best source admitedly) that the US was at D1 within the first few hours
after the attack.

[snip]

[Budikka]

Post by H.D.S
Multiple people have questiond my claim that the US was at defcon 1 during
the attacks.
Perhaps I was wrong, but I do vividly remember hearing from FoxNews (not
the best source admitedly) that the US was at D1 within the first few hours
after the attack.

You may be right. I don't recall ever hearing it but it probably
wouldn't be too hard to look it up. It wouldn't surprise me if we
were. At any rate, I think we're both in agreement that Duped is a
moron and that's the important thing! ;)

B.

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke

Post by LMN
John Kerry has waded into an issue raised by Michael Moore in his film
"Fahrenheit 9/11," namely, President Bush's sitting for seven minutes
in a Florida classroom after being told "the country is under attack."
Republicans are waxing indignant, of course.

Say, buddy, how do you know he wasn't told to sit by for a few
minutes.

LOL, who has the authority to tell the president of the united states to
sit idley by while the nation he was put in charge of protecting is under
attack?

Advisors? That's what thy're there for. To sdvise the President.

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke
After all, they had to react to the possibility that there
was more coming, and there was in Washington, so the Secret Service
had to make plans for a deviation.

So you think being stationary in an undefended school is the best place
for the most important person in america to be?

And who knew he was there. Remeber where the "Let's Roll" plane was headed
before some brave people caused it to crash?

Post by H.D.S
DO you really think it takes 27 minutes for the secret service to take
their thimbs out of their asses and respond?

"We gotta tell the whole world where the President is right now." Even the
idiotic PRESS in this country knew better than that! I'm sure if Bush were
somewhere by himself they would have released it right away, but at least
they used their heads (for ONCE) and spared some innocent kids!

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke
That President Bush did. Say thank you.

After his photo shoot and the death of some 400 airline passengers!

Sorry, kids, the nation is under attack. Gotta go! Oh, yeah, Duck and
Cover.

Geeze, it ain't Rocket Science!!!

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke

Post by LMN
He was "gathering his thoughts." This was a moment a President should
have imagined a thousand times.

Why, when the whole world was taken by surprise?

The means may have been novel but his lack of immediate action was
inexcusable!
His ass should have been off that chair immediately, apologized to the
class and news reporters and left to the nearest command post!

Post by duke

Post by LMN
I cannot see how someone who considers himself a conservative can
defend George Bush's inaction. Conservatives pride themselves on being
clear-eyed and decisive. They don't do nuance, and they respect
toughness.

They again you obviously lack the knowledge to be bright about it.

Ohh, I guess that means conservatives are pussies who fall to their knees
at the drop of a hat. Why the hell would you disagree with his statement
moron, is it to weaken your already ludicrious apology for the
president's failure to react?

[H.D.S]

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke

Post by LMN
John Kerry has waded into an issue raised by Michael Moore in his
film "Fahrenheit 9/11," namely, President Bush's sitting for seven
minutes in a Florida classroom after being told "the country is
under attack." Republicans are waxing indignant, of course.

Say, buddy, how do you know he wasn't told to sit by for a few
minutes.

LOL, who has the authority to tell the president of the united states
to sit idley by while the nation he was put in charge of protecting
is under attack?

Advisors? That's what thy're there for. To sdvise the President.

Wrong.

Advisors advise, they do not have the authroity to command the president.

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke
After all, they had to react to the possibility that there
was more coming, and there was in Washington, so the Secret Service
had to make plans for a deviation.

So you think being stationary in an undefended school is the best
place for the most important person in america to be?

And who knew he was there.

The press, children and therefore their parents, school principal,
teachers, all of bush's staff...

You can't put such an event together at the drop of a hat.

Post by Vash The Stampede
Remeber where the "Let's Roll" plane was
headed before some brave people caused it to crash?

I'm sorry, you actually believe that a school is the best place for the
most valuable asset in our country to be when we are under attack?

The president should have been brought to a bunker or other secure
location immediately, not waiting to see where the next plane hits!

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S
DO you really think it takes 27 minutes for the secret service to
take their thimbs out of their asses and respond?

"We gotta tell the whole world where the President is right now." Even
the idiotic PRESS in this country knew better than that! I'm sure if
Bush were somewhere by himself they would have released it right away,
but at least they used their heads (for ONCE) and spared some innocent
kids!

Can you read? Where did I say tell anyone??

I said that it shouldn't take the secret service 27 minutes to evac the
president.

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke
That President Bush did. Say thank you.

After his photo shoot and the death of some 400 airline passengers!

Sorry, kids, the nation is under attack. Gotta go! Oh, yeah, Duck and
Cover.
Geeze, it ain't Rocket Science!!!

LMFAO

The nation is under attack, hundreds of americans are dead (thousands to
follow), and you give a fuck about the feelings of a few elementary
school children?!

So you are saying the president decided it was more important for the
children to feel secure then it was TO IMMEDIATELY ACT TO STOP MORE
AMERICANS FROM DYING?!

dumbass.

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke

Post by LMN
John Kerry has waded into an issue raised by Michael Moore in his
film "Fahrenheit 9/11," namely, President Bush's sitting for seven
minutes in a Florida classroom after being told "the country is
under attack." Republicans are waxing indignant, of course.

Say, buddy, how do you know he wasn't told to sit by for a few
minutes.

LOL, who has the authority to tell the president of the united states
to sit idley by while the nation he was put in charge of protecting
is under attack?

Advisors? That's what thy're there for. To sdvise the President.

Wrong.
Advisors advise, they do not have the authroity to command the president.

No they don't. But I'm sure they told him to sit tight until the smoke
cleared.

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke
After all, they had to react to the possibility that there
was more coming, and there was in Washington, so the Secret Service
had to make plans for a deviation.

So you think being stationary in an undefended school is the best
place for the most important person in america to be?

They had no clue where he was. These people don't give a F^@k about
*anything*. If they knew Bush had been at that school, the school would
have been leveled. These are the children of Infidels, remember?

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
And who knew he was there.

The press, children and therefore their parents, school principal,
teachers, all of bush's staff...
You can't put such an event together at the drop of a hat.

Post by Vash The Stampede
Remeber where the "Let's Roll" plane was
headed before some brave people caused it to crash?

I'm sorry, you actually believe that a school is the best place for the
most valuable asset in our country to be when we are under attack?

You implyiing they knew about the attack before hand? When, where, by who?
Maybe they did, but what could they do?

It's obvious the attack was a complete surprise. You don't think if they
did they'd have had constant flights by the AF looking for somwthing
unusual?

It's not like the theory of FDR allowing the Japs to attack Pearl Harbor.

Post by H.D.S
The president should have been brought to a bunker or other secure
location immediately, not waiting to see where the next plane hits!

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S
DO you really think it takes 27 minutes for the secret service to
take their thimbs out of their asses and respond?

"We gotta tell the whole world where the President is right now." Even
the idiotic PRESS in this country knew better than that! I'm sure if
Bush were somewhere by himself they would have released it right away,
but at least they used their heads (for ONCE) and spared some innocent
kids!

Can you read? Where did I say tell anyone??

I wasn't quoting you , dude, I was being facetious about Tom Brokaw and
the like. Like the idiots at the NYTimes that blew the cover of the
operative helping us with data.

Post by H.D.S
I said that it shouldn't take the secret service 27 minutes to evac the
president.

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke
That President Bush did. Say thank you.

After his photo shoot and the death of some 400 airline passengers!

Sorry, kids, the nation is under attack. Gotta go! Oh, yeah, Duck and
Cover.
Geeze, it ain't Rocket Science!!!

LMFAO
The nation is under attack, hundreds of americans are dead (thousands to
follow), and you give a fuck about the feelings of a few elementary
school children?!
So you are saying the president decided it was more important for the
children to feel secure then it was TO IMMEDIATELY ACT TO STOP MORE
AMERICANS FROM DYING?!
dumbass.

And he would have done??????

These were, what? Fourth graders? Would have been a real good idea to
scare them out of their wits, right?

[H.D.S]

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke

Post by LMN
John Kerry has waded into an issue raised by Michael Moore in his
film "Fahrenheit 9/11," namely, President Bush's sitting for seven
minutes in a Florida classroom after being told "the country is
under attack." Republicans are waxing indignant, of course.

Say, buddy, how do you know he wasn't told to sit by for a few
minutes.

LOL, who has the authority to tell the president of the united
states to sit idley by while the nation he was put in charge of
protecting is under attack?

Advisors? That's what thy're there for. To sdvise the President.

Wrong.
Advisors advise, they do not have the authroity to command the president.

No they don't. But I'm sure they told him to sit tight until the smoke
cleared.

Until the bodies stopped smoldering?

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke
After all, they had to react to the possibility that there
was more coming, and there was in Washington, so the Secret
Service had to make plans for a deviation.

So you think being stationary in an undefended school is the best
place for the most important person in america to be?

*anything*. If they knew Bush had been at that school, the school
would have been leveled. These are the children of Infidels, remember?

Hereby confirming my statement that being in a school IS NOT THE SAFEST
PLACE FOR THE PRESIDENT TO BE!!

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
And who knew he was there.

The press, children and therefore their parents, school principal,
teachers, all of bush's staff...
You can't put such an event together at the drop of a hat.

Post by Vash The Stampede
Remeber where the "Let's Roll" plane was
headed before some brave people caused it to crash?

I'm sorry, you actually believe that a school is the best place for
the most valuable asset in our country to be when we are under
attack?

You implyiing they knew about the attack before hand? When, where, by
who? Maybe they did, but what could they do?

No, i'm not.

Post by Vash The Stampede
It's obvious the attack was a complete surprise. You don't think if
they did they'd have had constant flights by the AF looking for
somwthing unusual?
It's not like the theory of FDR allowing the Japs to attack Pearl Harbor.

Military tactics 101;

If you are a target, don't stand still!

The president was a target, whether they knew he was in a school or not
is irrelevant.

1. A school is not a safe place.
2. The president is useless to his military forces and nation stuck in a
school while under attack.
3. He does not have the nations resources at his hands if he could do
something about it.

It seems you are arguing that since it happened as a surprise and
suddenly the president should just sit back and wait for the attack to
end.

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S
The president should have been brought to a bunker or other secure
location immediately, not waiting to see where the next plane hits!

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S
DO you really think it takes 27 minutes for the secret service to
take their thimbs out of their asses and respond?

"We gotta tell the whole world where the President is right now."
Even the idiotic PRESS in this country knew better than that! I'm
sure if Bush were somewhere by himself they would have released it
right away, but at least they used their heads (for ONCE) and spared
some innocent kids!

Can you read? Where did I say tell anyone??

I wasn't quoting you , dude, I was being facetious about Tom Brokaw
and the like. Like the idiots at the NYTimes that blew the cover of
the operative helping us with data.

Sarcasm does not come across well through postings.

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S
I said that it shouldn't take the secret service 27 minutes to evac
the president.

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke
That President Bush did. Say thank you.

After his photo shoot and the death of some 400 airline passengers!

Sorry, kids, the nation is under attack. Gotta go! Oh, yeah, Duck
and Cover.
Geeze, it ain't Rocket Science!!!

LMFAO
The nation is under attack, hundreds of americans are dead (thousands
to follow), and you give a fuck about the feelings of a few
elementary school children?!
So you are saying the president decided it was more important for the
children to feel secure then it was TO IMMEDIATELY ACT TO STOP MORE
AMERICANS FROM DYING?!
dumbass.

And he would have done??????
These were, what? Fourth graders? Would have been a real good idea to
scare them out of their wits, right?

Dead americans.... frightened children

Who really gives a damn about a class of scared children.

Besides he could of just left, the president doesn't need to explain
himself to children.

It seems you prefer a president to just sit back and wait for an attack
to finish *before* he acts.

I prefer a competent president who acts to prevent more death rather then
wait for his own safety to be confirmed.

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
I wasn't quoting you , dude, I was being facetious about Tom Brokaw
and the like. Like the idiots at the NYTimes that blew the cover of
the operative helping us with data.

Sarcasm does not come across well through postings.

Correct It doesn't.

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S
I said that it shouldn't take the secret service 27 minutes to evac
the president.

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke
That President Bush did. Say thank you.

After his photo shoot and the death of some 400 airline passengers!

Sorry, kids, the nation is under attack. Gotta go! Oh, yeah, Duck
and Cover.
Geeze, it ain't Rocket Science!!!

LMFAO
The nation is under attack, hundreds of americans are dead (thousands
to follow), and you give a fuck about the feelings of a few
elementary school children?!
So you are saying the president decided it was more important for the
children to feel secure then it was TO IMMEDIATELY ACT TO STOP MORE
AMERICANS FROM DYING?!
dumbass.

And he would have done??????
These were, what? Fourth graders? Would have been a real good idea to
scare them out of their wits, right?

Dead americans.... frightened children
Who really gives a damn about a class of scared children.
Besides he could of just left, the president doesn't need to explain
himself to children.
It seems you prefer a president to just sit back and wait for an attack
to finish *before* he acts.
I prefer a competent president who acts to prevent more death rather then
wait for his own safety to be confirmed.

Sooooo...WHAT WOULD HE HAVE DONE!!!! The miltary was already mobilized.
And yes, frightened schoolchildren are a big thing! What could he have
done, other than run with his tail between his legs?

Obviously the enemy didn't know where he was because they were targeting
Washington. By that time airports were shut down and the nation was on
high alert, the building was surrounded by Secret Service, and the
National Guard alerted. What was left to do?

Ok, so 'frinstance, the enemy figures out where he is. Maybe some of them
*do* have consciences, I doub't it, but for sake of example. So, Prez
leaves the building immediately with a large entourage of big black
Caddies and SUVs. Looks like a moveable feast to me! Even if they didn't
*know* where he was, a parade like that, once it gets moving isn't too
hard to pinpoint.

<They're out to get the President! Let's put him on the road right now,
before we're sure of the situation!> Common Sense.

And you *know* I'm right!

[H.D.S]

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
I wasn't quoting you , dude, I was being facetious about Tom Brokaw
and the like. Like the idiots at the NYTimes that blew the cover of
the operative helping us with data.

Sarcasm does not come across well through postings.

Correct It doesn't.

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S
I said that it shouldn't take the secret service 27 minutes to evac
the president.

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S

Post by duke
That President Bush did. Say thank you.

After his photo shoot and the death of some 400 airline
passengers!

Sorry, kids, the nation is under attack. Gotta go! Oh, yeah, Duck
and Cover.
Geeze, it ain't Rocket Science!!!

LMFAO
The nation is under attack, hundreds of americans are dead
(thousands to follow), and you give a fuck about the feelings of a
few elementary school children?!
So you are saying the president decided it was more important for
the children to feel secure then it was TO IMMEDIATELY ACT TO STOP
MORE AMERICANS FROM DYING?!
dumbass.

And he would have done??????
These were, what? Fourth graders? Would have been a real good idea
to scare them out of their wits, right?

Dead americans.... frightened children
Who really gives a damn about a class of scared children.
Besides he could of just left, the president doesn't need to explain
himself to children.
It seems you prefer a president to just sit back and wait for an
attack to finish *before* he acts.
I prefer a competent president who acts to prevent more death rather
then wait for his own safety to be confirmed.

Sooooo...WHAT WOULD HE HAVE DONE!!!!

I'm not privy to the emergency plans when the nation is under attack.

But I can guarantee that the president could have done more then just sit
there on his ass.

Post by Vash The Stampede
The miltary was already
mobilized. And yes, frightened schoolchildren are a big thing!

Why do you continue to believe the president would have to explain
himself to children. If they would be frightened don't tell them and just
leave!

Besides, if you consider a class room of frightened children to be a "big
thing" you have a very poor grasp of the larger picture.

Post by Vash The Stampede
What
could he have done, other than run with his tail between his legs?

Straw man.

Did I say retreat in cowardice?

No I said to get off his ass and go to a command center. WHERE THE
PRESIDENT BELONGS AT A TIME OF WAR!! Not in some classroom waiting for
news on how many people have died.

Post by Vash The Stampede
Obviously the enemy didn't know where he was because they were
targeting Washington. By that time airports were shut down and the
nation was on high alert, the building was surrounded by Secret
Service, and the National Guard alerted. What was left to do?

Get to somewhere where he could be of use.

Post by Vash The Stampede
Ok, so 'frinstance, the enemy figures out where he is. Maybe some of
them *do* have consciences, I doub't it, but for sake of example. So,
Prez leaves the building immediately with a large entourage of big
black Caddies and SUVs. Looks like a moveable feast to me! Even if
they didn't *know* where he was, a parade like that, once it gets
moving isn't too hard to pinpoint.

I see. So you think it would be easy for a plane full of terrorists to
identify a moving caravan of cars, know it was the president's, redirect
in flight, target and hit the convoy all at 500mph and 20,000 feet??

Give me a break.

ANd as I said earlier, if you are a target, do not stand still!!

A stationary president in a large building is an easy target, regardless
if they knew he was there or not.

Post by Vash The Stampede
<They're out to get the President! Let's put him on the road right
now, before we're sure of the situation!> Common Sense.

Your road argument has no substance.

Keeping the most valuable asset in the nation in an undefended stationary
location is reckless.

Post by Vash The Stampede
And you *know* I'm right!

If I know you are right, why the fuck would I be wasting my time arguing
against your ludicrous position?

[Enkidu]

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
Sooooo...WHAT WOULD HE HAVE DONE!!!!

Perhaps nothing. But he couldn't have known that then.

Post by H.D.S
I'm not privy to the emergency plans when the nation is under attack.
But I can guarantee that the president could have done more then just
sit there on his ass.

Think about that for a moment. This president is most effective sitting
on his ass . . . at least he isn't fucking something up.

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
The military was already
mobilized. And yes, frightened schoolchildren are a big thing!

Why do you continue to believe the president would have to explain
himself to children. If they would be frightened don't tell them and
just leave!

Shit, it would be know problem leaving. He could have simply said
something came up. teachers do this all the time. "Sorry, kids, I've
got to take care of something. Mr. Jones will take over for me."

Post by H.D.S
Besides, if you consider a class room of frightened children to be a
"big thing" you have a very poor grasp of the larger picture.

The kids would not have been frightened. They would have enjoyed a
replacement, one who reads on his own, for pleasure.

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
What
could he have done, other than run with his tail between his legs?

Straw man.

No, that's a good question. What could he have done? He didn't know
what he could be doing. He didn't find out.

Post by H.D.S
Did I say retreat in cowardice?
No I said to get off his ass and go to a command center. WHERE THE
PRESIDENT BELONGS AT A TIME OF WAR!! Not in some classroom waiting for
news on how many people have died.

Rally, though, with this president, he might have nuked Utah. Sitting
on his ass may have been best for all of us.

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
Obviously the enemy didn't know where he was because they were
targeting Washington. By that time airports were shut down and the
nation was on high alert, the building was surrounded by Secret
Service, and the National Guard alerted. What was left to do?

Get to somewhere where he could be of use.

Or find out if he needed to take some action. But he's never made the
right move in his life. Perhaps he knew he would only fuck up, so he
did nothing.

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
Ok, so 'frinstance, the enemy figures out where he is. Maybe some of
them *do* have consciences, I doubt it, but for sake of example. So,
Prez leaves the building immediately with a large entourage of big
black Caddies and SUVs. Looks like a moveable feast to me! Even if
they didn't *know* where he was, a parade like that, once it gets
moving isn't too hard to pinpoint.

This is really reaching. In any event, removing himself from a school
would have been a moral necessity if he felt he was a target. I would
never knowingly draw fire to a school. What honorable man would?

Post by H.D.S
I see. So you think it would be easy for a plane full of terrorists to
identify a moving caravan of cars, know it was the president's,
redirect in flight, target and hit the convoy all at 500mph and 20,000
feet??
Give me a break.

He's rationalising. Rational thought is not part of his tool kit.

Post by H.D.S
And as I said earlier, if you are a target, do not stand still!!

Not around children, unless you use them as human shields. Would our
president do that? Even he is not that low. Just stunned.

Post by H.D.S
A stationary president in a large building is an easy target,
regardless if they knew he was there or not.

Post by Vash The Stampede
<They're out to get the President! Let's put him on the road right
now, before we're sure of the situation!> Common Sense.

Your road argument has no substance.
Keeping the most valuable asset in the nation in an undefended
stationary location is reckless.

GWB is the nation's most valuable asset? That's a sad prospect.

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
And you *know* I'm right!

The word you are looking for is "stupid", not "right".

Post by H.D.S
If I know you are right, why the fuck would I be wasting my time
arguing against your ludicrous position?

He's stupid.
--
Enkidu aa 2165
Now playing: Django Reinhardt - You Rascal You


That wall, embodied in the First Amendment, is perhaps
America's most important contribution to political progress
on this planet.
Lowell Weicker
Republican Senator 1971-1989

[Daniel Kolle]

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
Remeber where the "Let's Roll" plane was
headed before some brave people caused it to crash?

I'm sorry, you actually believe that a school is the best place for the
most valuable asset in our country to be when we are under attack?
The president should have been brought to a bunker or other secure
location immediately, not waiting to see where the next plane hits!

Ummm... excuse me. What the hell could Bush do?
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 16 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, Krzysztof Penderecki, and Geirr Tveitt are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.

[Woodswun]

Post by Daniel Kolle

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
Remeber where the "Let's Roll" plane was
headed before some brave people caused it to crash?

I'm sorry, you actually believe that a school is the best place for the
most valuable asset in our country to be when we are under attack?
The president should have been brought to a bunker or other secure
location immediately, not waiting to see where the next plane hits!

Ummm... excuse me. What the hell could Bush do?

Excuse himself, tell the class that it was wonderful to visit but that something
important had come up and he had to leave - then get the heck on the horn and
find out what was going on. Instead, he sat there like a piece of playdough
with a dumb look on his face, needing to have his handlers tell him what the
heck to do next.

The man is obviously not a leader.

Woods

[H.D.S]

Post by Daniel Kolle

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
Remeber where the "Let's Roll" plane was
headed before some brave people caused it to crash?

I'm sorry, you actually believe that a school is the best place for
the most valuable asset in our country to be when we are under attack?
The president should have been brought to a bunker or other secure
location immediately, not waiting to see where the next plane hits!

Ummm... excuse me. What the hell could Bush do?

Whether he could do something useful, he destroyed his leadership
credibility just sitting there like a child wating for someone else to tell
him what to do.

His inaction was pathetic.

You apparently aprove of such incompetent leaders.

[Charles R Ward]

Post by Daniel Kolle

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
Remeber where the "Let's Roll" plane was
headed before some brave people caused it to crash?

I'm sorry, you actually believe that a school is the best place for the
most valuable asset in our country to be when we are under attack?
The president should have been brought to a bunker or other secure
location immediately, not waiting to see where the next plane hits!

Ummm... excuse me. What the hell could Bush do?

He could have left the classroom immediately, there are few
better places on earth than Air Force One for establishing
communication and gathering information.

Charrles R Ward

[torresD]

Bush skipped away from the Texas National Guard
and he was seated in that classroom, frozen in fear,
on the morning of 9/11.

Bush failed the nation twice.

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by torresD
Bush skipped away from the Texas National Guard
and he was seated in that classroom, frozen in fear,
on the morning of 9/11.
Bush failed the nation twice.

Oh, brother!

This is a joke post, right?

[torresD]

"Vash The Stampede"

Post by torresD
Bush skipped away from the Texas National Guard
and he was seated in that classroom, frozen in fear,
on the morning of 9/11.
Bush failed the nation twice.

Oh, brother!

This is a joke post, right?

No, it's the unvarnished truth.

Unelected Chimp=Retarded, COWARD!

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by torresD
"Vash The Stampede"

Post by torresD
Bush skipped away from the Texas National Guard
and he was seated in that classroom, frozen in fear,
on the morning of 9/11.
Bush failed the nation twice.

Oh, brother!
This is a joke post, right?
No, it's the unvarnished truth.
Unelected Chimp=Retarded, COWARD!

And John Kerry has missed How many votes?
Has changed his mind How many times?

He is not the best person to replace Bush.

Why is it whenever Limbaugh, et al ask people to call in and say 'Tell me
why you're voting for Kerry' the *only* answer they *ever* gets is "He's
Not Bush."

Good reasoning there, Kerry supporters!

Never takes a stand on an issue, has voted against things he sponsored,
missed more votes than almost anybody, ever. Changes his mind in the same
speech, for God's sake!

I'll take Harry S. Truman, please. He's a good Democrat!

[JTEM]

Post by Vash The Stampede
And John Kerry has missed How many votes?

Tell. Go on, give us an exact number.

Post by Vash The Stampede
Has changed his mind How many times?

Less often than Bush.

I mean, come on! What hasn't Bush flip-flopped on?

[Enkidu]

Post by JTEM

Post by Vash The Stampede
And John Kerry has missed How many votes?

Tell. Go on, give us an exact number.

Post by Vash The Stampede
Has changed his mind How many times?

Less often than Bush.
I mean, come on! What hasn't Bush flip-flopped on?

He's consistently a coward.
--
Enkidu aa 2165
Now playing: AfroCelts - Cyberia


That wall, embodied in the First Amendment, is perhaps
America's most important contribution to political progress
on this planet.
Lowell Weicker
Republican Senator 1971-1989

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by JTEM

Post by Vash The Stampede
And John Kerry has missed How many votes?

Tell. Go on, give us an exact number.

I'm sorry, I can't. Look at the Congressional Record. You'll find it there.

Post by JTEM

Post by Vash The Stampede
Has changed his mind How many times?

Less often than Bush.

You're kidding, right?

Post by JTEM
I mean, come on! What hasn't Bush flip-flopped on?

I never said I liked Bush, either. He gave us a Royal shafting more than
once. I just don't think Kerry is the one to replace him. He has no stand
on anything. Just because he isn't Bush isn't a good reason. Is shooting
yourself in the foot?

[JTEM]

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by JTEM

Post by Vash The Stampede
And John Kerry has missed How many votes?

Tell. Go on, give us an exact number.

I'm sorry, I can't. Look at the Congressional Record.
You'll find it there.

So you had no point? Why didn't you just say so?

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by JTEM

Post by Vash The Stampede
Has changed his mind How many times?

Less often than Bush.

You're kidding, right?

Not in the least.

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by JTEM
I mean, come on! What hasn't Bush flip-flopped on?

I never said I liked Bush, either.

Some things don't have to be said.

[Michael Marxist Moore]

Kerry Says Credibility Not Damaged By Former Comrade's Lie

By Melanie Hunter
March 11, 2004


(CNSNews.com) - Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry
Thursday said his credibility was not affected by his previous
association with a man who fabricated his military credentials while
serving as executive director of a prominent anti-war group that
included Kerry.

Al Hubbard appeared with Kerry in 1971 on NBC's Meet the Press , was
introduced as a former decorated Air Force captain who had spent two
years in Vietnam and was wounded in the process. In reality, Hubbard
had lied about his military rank and other issues, as later
investigations revealed.

At the time, Kerry, Hubbard and other members of Vietnam Veterans
Against the War were alleging that U.S. troops were committing
widespread atrocities against Vietnamese civilians. Kerry even
testified about the issue before a congressional committee around the
same time he and Hubbard appeared on Meet the Press .

"I think our credibility was tremendous," Kerry told CNSNews.com's
Marc Morano during a press conference on Capitol Hill Thursday. Kerry
was surrounded at the press conference by Democratic members of the
U.S. Senate.

"I think that was one of the most moving and important weeks in an
effort to end a war that needed to be ended, and I'm proud of the role
that I played in helping to do that," Kerry said, referring to his
television appearance with Hubbard and congressional testimony. "I
think people all over this country joined together in trying to get
our servicemen home," Kerry added.

After his lie was discovered, Hubbard appeared on NBC's Today Show and
admitted lying about his rank because, he said, "he was convinced no
one would listen to a black man who was also an enlisted man."

Kerry said he hasn't spoken to Hubbard since the week of April 19,
1971, "and everybody was disappointed by what they learned back in
1971. To his credit, [Hubbard] did serve his nation. He had simply
exaggerated his particular position. But nobody knew it at the time,
and those things happen."

But as CNSNews.com previously reported, Hubbard had done more than
just exaggerate his rank in the Air Force. CBS News reporter William
Overend, a writer for the network's anchorman Walter Cronkite in 1971,
investigated Hubbard's war claims even further and discovered that
there was no record of Hubbard having ever served in Vietnam. In
addition, Hubbard was not shot down as he alleged and did not receive
a Purple Heart for injuries sustained during battle.




-----------
Liberals Hate America!

[Kate]

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by torresD
"Vash The Stampede"

Post by torresD
Bush skipped away from the Texas National Guard
and he was seated in that classroom, frozen in fear,
on the morning of 9/11.
Bush failed the nation twice.

Oh, brother!
This is a joke post, right?
No, it's the unvarnished truth.
Unelected Chimp=Retarded, COWARD!

And John Kerry has missed How many votes?
Has changed his mind How many times?

On what? Tell me. I'll bet you try to lie doing it too.

Post by Vash The Stampede
He is not the best person to replace Bush.
Why is it whenever Limbaugh, et al ask people to call in and say 'Tell me
why you're voting for Kerry' the *only* answer they *ever* gets is "He's
Not Bush."

Well Bush is the most god awful president there's ever been.

Post by Vash The Stampede
Good reasoning there, Kerry supporters!

Since Limbaugh never allows 'just anybody' to talk to him on the
radio, that's not much of a statistic - like none at all.

Post by Vash The Stampede
Never takes a stand on an issue, has voted against things he sponsored,
missed more votes than almost anybody, ever. Changes his mind in the same
speech, for God's sake!

That was Cheney dear - saying how it was silly for Kerry to say we
need to be sensitive in war time and then saying not once, but twice
about how it was important to be sensitive about the war.

Post by Vash The Stampede
I'll take Harry S. Truman, please. He's a good Democrat!

So vote for him. He's be a better president than Bush even dead.

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by Kate

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by torresD
"Vash The Stampede"

Post by torresD
Bush skipped away from the Texas National Guard
and he was seated in that classroom, frozen in fear,
on the morning of 9/11.
Bush failed the nation twice.

Oh, brother!
This is a joke post, right?
No, it's the unvarnished truth.
Unelected Chimp=Retarded, COWARD!

And John Kerry has missed How many votes?
Has changed his mind How many times?

On what? Tell me. I'll bet you try to lie doing it too.

Do you read the papers or watch the news? He did it right on national
television! What about "I voted for the $80 billion before I voted against
it"? That's not the only thing he's not taken a stand on. He has two
answers for almost everything!

What does he truly believe? Has he ever said that? Not that I can recall.
He believes he was a Vietnam War vet. So what? Hundreds of them are out
holding up 'will work for food' signs. That means absolutely nothing to
me. Stands on the issues matter, and he has no stands on anything firm!

I don't have to lie. The facts are stranger than fiction.

Post by Kate

Post by Vash The Stampede
He is not the best person to replace Bush.
Why is it whenever Limbaugh, et al ask people to call in and say 'Tell me
why you're voting for Kerry' the *only* answer they *ever* gets is "He's
Not Bush."

Well Bush is the most god awful president there's ever been.

Post by Vash The Stampede
Good reasoning there, Kerry supporters!

Since Limbaugh never allows 'just anybody' to talk to him on the
radio, that's not much of a statistic - like none at all.

Every time Limbaugh does allow someone to call in and have his say, they
can't hold up a debate without resorting to name calling and blathering.
I've heard it dozens of times! It's hilarious!

Post by Kate

Post by Vash The Stampede
Never takes a stand on an issue, has voted against things he sponsored,
missed more votes than almost anybody, ever. Changes his mind in the same
speech, for God's sake!

That was Cheney dear - saying how it was silly for Kerry to say we
need to be sensitive in war time and then saying not once, but twice
about how it was important to be sensitive about the war.

Kerry's done it once that I recall hearing. In a speech, that is. Does it
all the time when cornered.

Post by Kate

Post by Vash The Stampede
I'll take Harry S. Truman, please. He's a good Democrat!

So vote for him. He's be a better president than Bush even dead.

On this we can agree!!!!

You mean to say that the Democrats could not come up with *one* *single*
person with convictions? Out of all the Deomcrats in the US Kerry gets the
nomination?

I'd even take Gephardt! At least we all know he belives in communism! And
doesn't waffle about it!

"From each according to his means, to each according to his needs"

[Woodswun]

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by torresD
"Vash The Stampede"

Post by torresD
Bush skipped away from the Texas National Guard
and he was seated in that classroom, frozen in fear,
on the morning of 9/11.
Bush failed the nation twice.

Oh, brother!
This is a joke post, right?
No, it's the unvarnished truth.
Unelected Chimp=Retarded, COWARD!

And John Kerry has missed How many votes?
Has changed his mind How many times?]

Going AWOL versus a decorated war veteran, taking several months vacation a year
, every year, versus missing votes while campaigning ....

Hmmmmmm...


Woods

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by Woodswun

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by torresD
"Vash The Stampede"

Post by torresD
Bush skipped away from the Texas National Guard
and he was seated in that classroom, frozen in fear,
on the morning of 9/11.
Bush failed the nation twice.

Oh, brother!
This is a joke post, right?
No, it's the unvarnished truth.
Unelected Chimp=Retarded, COWARD!

And John Kerry has missed How many votes?
Has changed his mind How many times?]

Going AWOL versus a decorated war veteran, taking several months vacation a year
, every year, versus missing votes while campaigning ....
Hmmmmmm...
Woods

I live in Massachusetts and the man is utterly *useless*!

The only thing I can thnk of that he has done whaile he has been anelected
official is getting the fire hydrant moved from in front of his house to
in front of his neighbor's!

[GOP in 2004!!!!]

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by torresD
Bush skipped away from the Texas National Guard
and he was seated in that classroom, frozen in fear,
on the morning of 9/11.
Bush failed the nation twice.

Oh, brother!
This is a joke post, right?

It must be, because Bush has failed this nation a lot more
than twice:

| WASHINGTON -- Exactly two years before the
| Sept. 11 attacks, a federal report warned the executive
| branch that Osama bin Laden's terrorists might hijack
| an airliner and dive bomb it into the Pentagon or other
| government building.
| http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0517-06.htm

| (CBS) President Bush was told in the months before the
| Sept. 11 attacks that Osama bin Laden's terrorist network
| might hijack U.S. passenger planes - information which
| prompted the administration to issue an alert to federal
| agencies - but not the American public.
| http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/16/attack/main509294.shtml

Okay, so they accidentially "lost" the part about crashing
the hijacked planes into buildings...

[Conservative Man]

Post by torresD
Bush skipped away from the Texas National Guard
and he was seated in that classroom, frozen in fear,
on the morning of 9/11.
Bush failed the nation twice.

That's a lie! Bush failed the nation a lot more than just
twice.

The time to do something about the 9/11 hijacking was
BEFORE the happened. Bush had plenty of warning,
plenty of opportunity to act and stop the attacks from
ever taking place:

| WASHINGTON -- Exactly two years before the
| Sept. 11 attacks, a federal report warned the executive
| branch that Osama bin Laden's terrorists might hijack
| an airliner and dive bomb it into the Pentagon or other
| government building.
| http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0517-06.htm

| (CBS) President Bush was told in the months before the
| Sept. 11 attacks that Osama bin Laden's terrorist network
| might hijack U.S. passenger planes - information which
| prompted the administration to issue an alert to federal
| agencies - but not the American public.
| http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/16/attack/main509294.shtml

[Cap'n TrVth]

Post by torresD
Bush skipped away from the Texas National Guard
and he was seated in that classroom, frozen in fear,
on the morning of 9/11.
Bush failed the nation twice.

^^^^^


You spelled Clinton wrong Jackass.

HTH

-Cap

[Lloyd Parker]

Post by Cap'n TrVth

Post by torresD
Bush skipped away from the Texas National Guard
and he was seated in that classroom, frozen in fear,
on the morning of 9/11.
Bush failed the nation twice.

^^^^^
You spelled Clinton wrong Jackass.
HTH
-Cap

Yes, it was really Clinton who, despite being warned bin Laden was a threat
in Jan. 2000, did nothing for 9 months, and it was Clinton who sat there
reading "My Pet Goat" when we were under attack.

[%]

Post by Lloyd Parker

Post by Cap'n TrVth

Post by torresD
Bush skipped away from the Texas National Guard
and he was seated in that classroom, frozen in fear,
on the morning of 9/11.
Bush failed the nation twice.

^^^^^
You spelled Clinton wrong Jackass.
HTH
-Cap

Yes, it was really Clinton who, despite being warned bin Laden was a threat
in Jan. 2000, did nothing for 9 months, and it was Clinton who sat there
reading "My Pet Goat" when we were under attack.

Clinton ignored terrorists for all, or part of 8 years

There were no terrorists the first nine months of Bush's term and no
reason to actually do one thing to stop them.

9/11

It was Clinton's fault.


Understand?

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by %

Post by Lloyd Parker

Post by Cap'n TrVth

Post by torresD
Bush skipped away from the Texas National Guard
and he was seated in that classroom, frozen in fear,
on the morning of 9/11.
Bush failed the nation twice.

^^^^^
You spelled Clinton wrong Jackass.
HTH
-Cap

Yes, it was really Clinton who, despite being warned bin Laden was a threat
in Jan. 2000, did nothing for 9 months, and it was Clinton who sat there
reading "My Pet Goat" when we were under attack.

Clinton ignored terrorists for all, or part of 8 years
There were no terrorists the first nine months of Bush's term and no
reason to actually do one thing to stop them.
9/11
It was Clinton's fault.
Understand?

Not neccessarily (No, I'm certainly not defending the cigar king!!!)

But the information may *not* have been handed off properly to Bush's
team, perhaps even in an effort to make him appear to be the goat in case
of an attack!

"let them figure it out" may have very well been discussed!

[Enkidu]

Post by %

Post by Lloyd Parker

Post by Cap'n TrVth

Post by torresD
Bush skipped away from the Texas National Guard
and he was seated in that classroom, frozen in fear,
on the morning of 9/11.
Bush failed the nation twice.

^^^^^
You spelled Clinton wrong Jackass.
HTH
-Cap

Yes, it was really Clinton who, despite being warned bin Laden was a
threat in Jan. 2000, did nothing for 9 months, and it was Clinton who
sat there reading "My Pet Goat" when we were under attack.

Clinton ignored terrorists for all, or part of 8 years
There were no terrorists the first nine months of Bush's term and no
reason to actually do one thing to stop them.
9/11
It was Clinton's fault.
Understand?

Yep. It was Clinton's fault the British burned Washington during the war
of 1812, Clinton's fault that the Titanic sank, Clinton's fault that TWO
space shuttles were lost, and Clinton's fault that my granny suffers from
hemorrhoids.

Get a clue! When Bush took over the oval office, he took over
responsibility for the executive branch of government. If Clinton left
us open to attack, and Bush was made aware of that danger and did not
act, HE ALONE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS INACTION. Clinton may or may not
have left us open to attack, but it is certain that Bush was warned we
were open to this specific type of attack, and he did nothing. HE ALONE
IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS INACTION.
--
Enkidu aa 2165
Now playing: Janah - Temple of My Body


That wall, embodied in the First Amendment, is perhaps
America's most important contribution to political progress
on this planet.
Lowell Weicker
Republican Senator 1971-1989

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by Lloyd Parker

Post by Cap'n TrVth

Post by torresD
Bush skipped away from the Texas National Guard
and he was seated in that classroom, frozen in fear,
on the morning of 9/11.
Bush failed the nation twice.

^^^^^
You spelled Clinton wrong Jackass.
HTH
-Cap

Yes, it was really Clinton who, despite being warned bin Laden was a threat
in Jan. 2000, did nothing for 9 months, and it was Clinton who sat there
reading "My Pet Goat" when we were under attack.

Whoa! Someone who actually follows things!!!

Thank God! I thought I was the only one here....

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by Charles R Ward

Post by Daniel Kolle

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
Remeber where the "Let's Roll" plane was
headed before some brave people caused it to crash?

I'm sorry, you actually believe that a school is the best place for the
most valuable asset in our country to be when we are under attack?
The president should have been brought to a bunker or other secure
location immediately, not waiting to see where the next plane hits!

Ummm... excuse me. What the hell could Bush do?

He could have left the classroom immediately, there are few
better places on earth than Air Force One for establishing
communication and gathering information.
Charrles R Ward

Yup. The only plane in the air. Not much of a target, eh?

[H.D.S]

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Charles R Ward

Post by Daniel Kolle

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
Remeber where the "Let's Roll" plane was
headed before some brave people caused it to crash?

I'm sorry, you actually believe that a school is the best place for
the most valuable asset in our country to be when we are under
attack?
The president should have been brought to a bunker or other secure
location immediately, not waiting to see where the next plane hits!

Ummm... excuse me. What the hell could Bush do?

He could have left the classroom immediately, there are few
better places on earth than Air Force One for establishing
communication and gathering information.
Charrles R Ward

Yup. The only plane in the air. Not much of a target, eh?

LOL, are you dumb enough to think it would be a piece of cake to find and
collide with another plane at 700mph and 35,000 feet, compared to a
stationary school complex?

Not to mention that AF1 is always excorted by fighter jets.

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Charles R Ward

Post by Daniel Kolle

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
Remeber where the "Let's Roll" plane was
headed before some brave people caused it to crash?

I'm sorry, you actually believe that a school is the best place for
the most valuable asset in our country to be when we are under
attack?
The president should have been brought to a bunker or other secure
location immediately, not waiting to see where the next plane hits!

Ummm... excuse me. What the hell could Bush do?

He could have left the classroom immediately, there are few
better places on earth than Air Force One for establishing
communication and gathering information.
Charrles R Ward

Yup. The only plane in the air. Not much of a target, eh?

LOL, are you dumb enough to think it would be a piece of cake to find and
collide with another plane at 700mph and 35,000 feet, compared to a
stationary school complex?
Not to mention that AF1 is always excorted by fighter jets.

Considering it would have been the *only* plane in the air, I don't think
it would have been too hard to find!

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Charles R Ward

Post by Daniel Kolle

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
Remeber where the "Let's Roll" plane was
headed before some brave people caused it to crash?

I'm sorry, you actually believe that a school is the best place for
the most valuable asset in our country to be when we are under
attack?
The president should have been brought to a bunker or other secure
location immediately, not waiting to see where the next plane hits!

Ummm... excuse me. What the hell could Bush do?

He could have left the classroom immediately, there are few
better places on earth than Air Force One for establishing
communication and gathering information.
Charrles R Ward

Yup. The only plane in the air. Not much of a target, eh?

LOL, are you dumb enough to think it would be a piece of cake to find and
collide with another plane at 700mph and 35,000 feet, compared to a
stationary school complex?
Not to mention that AF1 is always excorted by fighter jets.

I'm coming to the firm belief few people in here think.

[H.D.S]

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Charles R Ward

Post by Daniel Kolle

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
Remeber where the "Let's Roll" plane was
headed before some brave people caused it to crash?

I'm sorry, you actually believe that a school is the best place
for the most valuable asset in our country to be when we are
under attack?
The president should have been brought to a bunker or other
secure location immediately, not waiting to see where the next
plane hits!

Ummm... excuse me. What the hell could Bush do?

He could have left the classroom immediately, there are few
better places on earth than Air Force One for establishing
communication and gathering information.
Charrles R Ward

Yup. The only plane in the air. Not much of a target, eh?

LOL, are you dumb enough to think it would be a piece of cake to find
and collide with another plane at 700mph and 35,000 feet, compared to
a stationary school complex?
Not to mention that AF1 is always excorted by fighter jets.

I'm coming to the firm belief few people in here think.

You are proof of that.

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Charles R Ward

Post by Daniel Kolle

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
Remeber where the "Let's Roll" plane was
headed before some brave people caused it to crash?

I'm sorry, you actually believe that a school is the best place
for the most valuable asset in our country to be when we are
under attack?
The president should have been brought to a bunker or other
secure location immediately, not waiting to see where the next
plane hits!

Ummm... excuse me. What the hell could Bush do?

He could have left the classroom immediately, there are few
better places on earth than Air Force One for establishing
communication and gathering information.
Charrles R Ward

Yup. The only plane in the air. Not much of a target, eh?

LOL, are you dumb enough to think it would be a piece of cake to find
and collide with another plane at 700mph and 35,000 feet, compared to
a stationary school complex?
Not to mention that AF1 is always excorted by fighter jets.

I'm coming to the firm belief few people in here think.

You are proof of that.

Fact remains....big black entourage....only plane in sky....two and two
still equals four in my book!

And the fact remains that they *didn't* know where he was so it was the
safest place to stay as long as the press didn't blab his location!

It ain't rocket science....

[Brian Westley]

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Charles R Ward

Post by Daniel Kolle

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
Remeber where the "Let's Roll" plane was
headed before some brave people caused it to crash?

I'm sorry, you actually believe that a school is the best place
for the most valuable asset in our country to be when we are
under attack?
The president should have been brought to a bunker or other
secure location immediately, not waiting to see where the next
plane hits!

Ummm... excuse me. What the hell could Bush do?

He could have left the classroom immediately, there are few
better places on earth than Air Force One for establishing
communication and gathering information.
Charrles R Ward

Yup. The only plane in the air. Not much of a target, eh?

LOL, are you dumb enough to think it would be a piece of cake to find
and collide with another plane at 700mph and 35,000 feet, compared to
a stationary school complex?
Not to mention that AF1 is always excorted by fighter jets.

I'm coming to the firm belief few people in here think.

You are proof of that.

Fact remains....big black entourage....only plane in sky....two and two
still equals four in my book!
And the fact remains that they *didn't* know where he was so it was the
safest place to stay as long as the press didn't blab his location!

LOOk, you fucking idiot, the president was at a PHOTO OP!
His exact location was KNOWN and ANNOUNCED days before!

---
Merlyn LeRoy

[torresD]

Yes, he did.

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by Brian Westley

Post by Vash The Stampede
And the fact remains that they *didn't* know where he was so it was the
safest place to stay as long as the press didn't blab his location!

LOOk, you fucking idiot, the president was at a PHOTO OP!
His exact location was KNOWN and ANNOUNCED days before!
---
Merlyn LeRoy

AND *YOU* look, you Fucking Moore-on, Obviously they missed it because
they were targeting the *WHITE* *HOUSE*. Get it this time? I said it
*THREE* *FUCKING* *TIMES* *ALREADY*!!!! If they knew he was at the
*SCHOOL*, why did they target the *WHITE* *HOUSE*?

God, how muther-fucking *DENSE* can you fucking be????

You're as fucking ignorant as they were!

[Brian Westley]

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Brian Westley

Post by Vash The Stampede
And the fact remains that they *didn't* know where he was so it was the
safest place to stay as long as the press didn't blab his location!

LOOk, you fucking idiot, the president was at a PHOTO OP!
His exact location was KNOWN and ANNOUNCED days before!

AND *YOU* look, you Fucking Moore-on, Obviously they missed it because
they were targeting the *WHITE* *HOUSE*. Get it this time? I said it
*THREE* *FUCKING* *TIMES* *ALREADY*!!!! If they knew he was at the
*SCHOOL*, why did they target the *WHITE* *HOUSE*?

Because they WEREN'T trying to kill the president, you moron.

But at the time of the attack, nobody KNEW that, so the
reasonable thing to do is assume that a publically-announced
photo-op is NOT a safe place.

But your comment about the "press not blabbing his location"
shows you didn't even KNOW that the president was at an
already-publicized photo-op, so now you're just trying to
backpedal so as to not look quite as stupid. But it isn't
working.

---
Merlyn LeRoy

[Paul Harper]

Post by Brian Westley

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Brian Westley

Post by Vash The Stampede
And the fact remains that they *didn't* know where he was so it was the
safest place to stay as long as the press didn't blab his location!

LOOk, you fucking idiot, the president was at a PHOTO OP!
His exact location was KNOWN and ANNOUNCED days before!

AND *YOU* look, you Fucking Moore-on, Obviously they missed it because
they were targeting the *WHITE* *HOUSE*. Get it this time? I said it
*THREE* *FUCKING* *TIMES* *ALREADY*!!!! If they knew he was at the
*SCHOOL*, why did they target the *WHITE* *HOUSE*?

Because they WEREN'T trying to kill the president, you moron.

Indeed. Any bloody fool can kill a president. But drive a passenger
airliner full-on into the front of the White House, that fucks the
country for decades. As it is, America is the most nervous, worried
and twitchy country on the planet now. Think how much more paranoid
they'd be if the White House was a small pile of smoking rubble?

That's the trouble with people who think individuals are imporant.
They're not. It's symbols that bring countries to their knees - as the
WTC destruction showed all too well.

If you ask me, the terrorists pretty much won that argument. The US
economy's gone to pot, the national debt is spiralling out of control
with the result that most of the US is owned by foreign investors,
unemployment is growing, moral is at a very low ebb and the US's
standing globally has never been worse.

Paul.

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by Paul Harper

Post by Brian Westley

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Brian Westley

Post by Vash The Stampede
And the fact remains that they *didn't* know where he was so it was the
safest place to stay as long as the press didn't blab his location!

LOOk, you fucking idiot, the president was at a PHOTO OP!
His exact location was KNOWN and ANNOUNCED days before!

AND *YOU* look, you Fucking Moore-on, Obviously they missed it because
they were targeting the *WHITE* *HOUSE*. Get it this time? I said it
*THREE* *FUCKING* *TIMES* *ALREADY*!!!! If they knew he was at the
*SCHOOL*, why did they target the *WHITE* *HOUSE*?

Because they WEREN'T trying to kill the president, you moron.

Indeed. Any bloody fool can kill a president. But drive a passenger
airliner full-on into the front of the White House, that fucks the
country for decades. As it is, America is the most nervous, worried
and twitchy country on the planet now. Think how much more paranoid
they'd be if the White House was a small pile of smoking rubble?

Very good point.

Has about the same effect as it did when the Japs sunk the Arizona. We
want revenge. And they didn't have to hit the White House to do that. But,
hitting the White house would have upset the seat of the leadership of the
country (if that's what you want to call it), had a drastic effect on the
stock market and disrupted government even further. 'Justice' would have
been much more widespread then just Afghanistan and Iraq.

Post by Paul Harper
That's the trouble with people who think individuals are imporant.
They're not. It's symbols that bring countries to their knees - as the
WTC destruction showed all too well.

Yup.

Post by Paul Harper
If you ask me, the terrorists pretty much won that argument. The US
economy's gone to pot, the national debt is spiralling out of control
with the result that most of the US is owned by foreign investors,
unemployment is growing, moral is at a very low ebb and the US's
standing globally has never been worse.
Paul.

Most of what you mention happened on other people's watches. They buying
of America began with Carter, increased with Reagan and skyrocketed with
Clinton. And who did most of the buying (hint, if you say Japan, you
*don't* get a gold star!)

Unemployment is cyclical. Any first year economics student knows this. Has
very little to do with the Presidency. The WTC falling to the ground had
more to do with empoloyment levels than Bush ever will.

As for our standing globally, we lost the French. Heh? Big deal. We lost
the Germans. Bigger deal (really) But, we gained a few strategic alliances
out of this.

And think of this. Even without Nucular weapons ;), we could have
*levelled* Iraq!!!

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by Brian Westley

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Brian Westley

Post by Vash The Stampede
And the fact remains that they *didn't* know where he was so it was the
safest place to stay as long as the press didn't blab his location!

LOOk, you fucking idiot, the president was at a PHOTO OP!
His exact location was KNOWN and ANNOUNCED days before!

AND *YOU* look, you Fucking Moore-on, Obviously they missed it because
they were targeting the *WHITE* *HOUSE*. Get it this time? I said it
*THREE* *FUCKING* *TIMES* *ALREADY*!!!! If they knew he was at the
*SCHOOL*, why did they target the *WHITE* *HOUSE*?

Because they WEREN'T trying to kill the president, you moron.

And they were headed for Washington for...

Post by Brian Westley
But at the time of the attack, nobody KNEW that, so the
reasonable thing to do is assume that a publically-announced
photo-op is NOT a safe place.
But your comment about the "press not blabbing his location"
shows you didn't even KNOW that the president was at an
already-publicized photo-op, so now you're just trying to
backpedal so as to not look quite as stupid. But it isn't
working.
---
Merlyn LeRoy

Yup. But the point is, they weren't tageting him. You just said so
yourself! So why get you're intestines in a knot? You're contradicting
yourself. First you say they were targeting the President and that a
school was not a good place, now you're saying they weren't. Make up your
mind.

The school wasn't even a target, if it had been, Bush and a whole bunch of
kids would be dead. Whether he hi-tailed it out of there or not.

Aside from all that, 3 years later it's a moot point anyway.

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by Daniel Kolle

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
Remeber where the "Let's Roll" plane was
headed before some brave people caused it to crash?

I'm sorry, you actually believe that a school is the best place for the
most valuable asset in our country to be when we are under attack?
The president should have been brought to a bunker or other secure
location immediately, not waiting to see where the next plane hits!

Ummm... excuse me. What the hell could Bush do?

I said the very same thing. Everyone who needed to be mobilized already
*was* mobilized! Bush may not have done exactly the right thing, but he
didn't scare the ***@t out of a schoolful of kids, either!

[H.D.S]

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Daniel Kolle

Post by H.D.S

Post by Vash The Stampede
Remeber where the "Let's Roll" plane was
headed before some brave people caused it to crash?

I'm sorry, you actually believe that a school is the best place for the
most valuable asset in our country to be when we are under attack?
The president should have been brought to a bunker or other secure
location immediately, not waiting to see where the next plane hits!

Ummm... excuse me. What the hell could Bush do?

I said the very same thing. Everyone who needed to be mobilized already
*was* mobilized! Bush may not have done exactly the right thing, but he

Having to base your position on not frightening a few children proves how
weak your argument is, when compared to thousands of dead americans.

Why do you also feel that bush would need to explain himself to children
when matters of national security are at hand?

I know Bush is stupid, but do you think he is stupid enough that if he did
waste his time excusing himself, he would have said it in such a way that
it would have frightened children?

Your assumption that Bush would have frightened children only supports the
position that he is a fucking moron.

[Firelock]

Post by Vash The Stampede
I said the very same thing. Everyone who needed to be mobilized already
*was* mobilized! Bush may not have done exactly the right thing, but he

I think Bush's biggest problem was that live cameras were
on him at the moment. How many minutes did it take Roosevelt
to regain his composure and take action when the reports of
the Pearl Harbor attack reached him? We'll never know, as
presidents of past eras had the luxury of such privacy.

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by Firelock

Post by Vash The Stampede
I said the very same thing. Everyone who needed to be mobilized already
*was* mobilized! Bush may not have done exactly the right thing, but he

I think Bush's biggest problem was that live cameras were
on him at the moment. How many minutes did it take Roosevelt
to regain his composure and take action when the reports of
the Pearl Harbor attack reached him? We'll never know, as
presidents of past eras had the luxury of such privacy.
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

LOL! Interesting point.

The fact of the matter is, the military was expecting the attack on Hawaii
or the Phillipines or the Marshalls a week earlier. This is the whole
reason the CIA was created! The Navy had some information, and the Army
had some information, and they were loathe to share it. The CIA was
created wihin weeks after Pearl Harbor so this would never happen again!
So who really failed?

We don't need Homeland Security. We need the CIA to do what it was created
to do!!!

[Firelock]

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Firelock

Post by Vash The Stampede
I said the very same thing. Everyone who needed to be mobilized already
*was* mobilized! Bush may not have done exactly the right thing, but he

I think Bush's biggest problem was that live cameras were
on him at the moment. How many minutes did it take Roosevelt
to regain his composure and take action when the reports of
the Pearl Harbor attack reached him? We'll never know, as
presidents of past eras had the luxury of such privacy.
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

LOL! Interesting point.
The fact of the matter is, the military was expecting the attack on Hawaii
or the Phillipines or the Marshalls a week earlier. This is the whole
reason the CIA was created! The Navy had some information, and the Army
had some information, and they were loathe to share it. The CIA was
created wihin weeks after Pearl Harbor so this would never happen again!

Well, no. The CIA didn't exist until 1947, and really didn't
have the powers of the CIA as we know it today until 1953.
Even the OSS ("Wild Bill" Donovan's WWII intelligence group,
seen by most as the precursor of the CIA) wasn't organized
until six months after the Pearl Harbor attack, and it never
really had jurisdiction over all foriegn intelligence operations,
what with the FBI, army and navy having operations all over
the world.

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by Firelock

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Firelock

Post by Vash The Stampede
I said the very same thing. Everyone who needed to be mobilized already
*was* mobilized! Bush may not have done exactly the right thing, but he

I think Bush's biggest problem was that live cameras were
on him at the moment. How many minutes did it take Roosevelt
to regain his composure and take action when the reports of
the Pearl Harbor attack reached him? We'll never know, as
presidents of past eras had the luxury of such privacy.
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

LOL! Interesting point.
The fact of the matter is, the military was expecting the attack on Hawaii
or the Phillipines or the Marshalls a week earlier. This is the whole
reason the CIA was created! The Navy had some information, and the Army
had some information, and they were loathe to share it. The CIA was
created wihin weeks after Pearl Harbor so this would never happen again!

Well, no. The CIA didn't exist until 1947, and really didn't
have the powers of the CIA as we know it today until 1953.
Even the OSS ("Wild Bill" Donovan's WWII intelligence group,
seen by most as the precursor of the CIA) wasn't organized
until six months after the Pearl Harbor attack, and it never
really had jurisdiction over all foriegn intelligence operations,
what with the FBI, army and navy having operations all over
the world.
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

Sorry, I stand corrected. It was the OSS, but the President and Congress
called for it's creation within a week after the attack on PH. It took a
while to evolve into the CIA. And it was operational within 6 months.

[commutator]

Post by Firelock

Post by Vash The Stampede
I said the very same thing. Everyone who needed to be mobilized already
*was* mobilized! Bush may not have done exactly the right thing, but he

I think Bush's biggest problem was that live cameras were
on him at the moment. How many minutes did it take Roosevelt
to regain his composure and take action when the reports of
the Pearl Harbor attack reached him? We'll never know, as
presidents of past eras had the luxury of such privacy.

We pretty much do. When the talks with Japanese were declared failed
Roosevelt ordered the alert of all American military personnel and
asked the Chinese embassy to do the same. The highest suspicion was
of course an attack in the Phillipines but an order was sent to Pearl
to prepare for an imminent attack as well (other places were warned
too). The order arrived about an hour late. Roosevelt was up and
waiting and actually having a conference on the matter when the info
that Pearl had been hit came to him.
He went to congress to get a declaration of war made official. Of
some irony, Britain declared war on the Japanese before the Americans
did.

[Firelock]

Post by commutator

Post by Firelock
I think Bush's biggest problem was that live cameras were
on him at the moment. How many minutes did it take Roosevelt
to regain his composure and take action when the reports of
the Pearl Harbor attack reached him? We'll never know, as
presidents of past eras had the luxury of such privacy.

We pretty much do.

"Pretty much" != "he had live television cameras pointed
at his face at the time". Remember, this was a guy who
was able to control media access to the point that most
Americans didn't know he used a wheelchair - that kind
of privacy is unthinkable to a US president of today.

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

[torresD]

Post by Firelock
I think Bush's biggest problem was that live cameras were
on him at the moment.

Really, is that he had camera's focused on him.

This is the era of the internet, cellphone,
computers, digital cameras, cellphone cameras.

He should just go home to Crawford, Texas,
if a camera rattles him.

[Michael Marxist Moore]

Bill Clinton Emotionally Ready To Start Getting Blow Jobs Again!!!!!
Liberals Hate America!!!!!!!!

June 20, 2004.

NEW YORK - (APX) Six years after the Monica Lewinsky scandal, former
president Bill Clinton announced Friday that, at long last, he is
emotionally ready to start receiving blow jobs again. "It has been a
long, difficult road, but I am finally at a point in my life where I
can receive oral sex from a woman again," Clinton told reporters at a
democrat fund raising dinner in Little Rock. "After many years of
soul-searching and intensive therapy, I am now able to enjoy getting
blown without all that painful emotional baggage overshadowing what
should be a wonderful experience."

[Firelock]

Post by torresD
Really, is that he had camera's focused on him.
This is the era of the internet, cellphone,
computers, digital cameras, cellphone cameras.
He should just go home to Crawford, Texas,
if a camera rattles him.

And you are at your charismatic best 24 hours a
day? The real world isn't Hollywood, too bad for
your sensibilities that this president didn't do
dramatic and dashing things on cue like your movie
heroes trained you to expect.

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

[commutator]

Post by Firelock

Post by commutator

Post by Firelock
I think Bush's biggest problem was that live cameras were
on him at the moment. How many minutes did it take Roosevelt
to regain his composure and take action when the reports of
the Pearl Harbor attack reached him? We'll never know, as
presidents of past eras had the luxury of such privacy.

We pretty much do.

"Pretty much" != "he had live television cameras pointed
at his face at the time". Remember, this was a guy who
was able to control media access to the point that most
Americans didn't know he used a wheelchair - that kind
of privacy is unthinkable to a US president of today.
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

It wasn't privacy or abuse of political power. It was a sign of
respect that the media didn't show Roosevelt's chair.

[Firelock]

Post by commutator
It wasn't privacy or abuse of political power. It was a sign of
respect that the media didn't show Roosevelt's chair.

I didn't say that it was abuse of political power, but it was
most certainly privacy - the media (and his political opponents)
respected Roosevelt enough that they usually allowed him his
privacy, something that you don't see happening today.

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

[Conservative Man]

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Daniel Kolle
Ummm... excuse me. What the hell could Bush do?

I said the very same thing. Everyone who needed to be
mobilized already *was* mobilized!

That's not actually true. Bush was the only man who could
authorize the shoot-down of a civilian airliner. Period. Only
luck saved us from an airliner crashing into the containment
wall of a nuclear power plant, and certainly not Bush.

Of course, all this ignores the fact that Bush could have
stopped any of the hijackings from ever taking place. All
that was needed was a little money to place Sky Marshals
on air planes. Any near-sighted Sky Marshal with a .22
could have stopped these hijackings, as all the terrorists
were armed with nothing more than box cutters.

Bush had plenty of ADVENCE warning about the attack:

| WASHINGTON -- Exactly two years before the
| Sept. 11 attacks, a federal report warned the executive
| branch that Osama bin Laden's terrorists might hijack
| an airliner and dive bomb it into the Pentagon or other
| government building.
| http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0517-06.htm

| (CBS) President Bush was told in the months before the
| Sept. 11 attacks that Osama bin Laden's terrorist network
| might hijack U.S. passenger planes - information which
| prompted the administration to issue an alert to federal
| agencies - but not the American public.
| http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/16/attack/main509294.shtml

Oops. Notice how the "mainstream media" version
accidentially drops mention of the fact that they knew
these planes would be crashed into buildings?

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by Conservative Man

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Daniel Kolle
Ummm... excuse me. What the hell could Bush do?

I said the very same thing. Everyone who needed to be
mobilized already *was* mobilized!

That's not actually true. Bush was the only man who could
authorize the shoot-down of a civilian airliner. Period. Only
luck saved us from an airliner crashing into the containment
wall of a nuclear power plant, and certainly not Bush.
Of course, all this ignores the fact that Bush could have
stopped any of the hijackings from ever taking place. All
that was needed was a little money to place Sky Marshals
on air planes. Any near-sighted Sky Marshal with a .22
could have stopped these hijackings, as all the terrorists
were armed with nothing more than box cutters.
| WASHINGTON -- Exactly two years before the
| Sept. 11 attacks, a federal report warned the executive
| branch that Osama bin Laden's terrorists might hijack
| an airliner and dive bomb it into the Pentagon or other
| government building.
| http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0517-06.htm
| (CBS) President Bush was told in the months before the
| Sept. 11 attacks that Osama bin Laden's terrorist network
| might hijack U.S. passenger planes - information which
| prompted the administration to issue an alert to federal
| agencies - but not the American public.
| http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/16/attack/main509294.shtml
Oops. Notice how the "mainstream media" version
accidentially drops mention of the fact that they knew
these planes would be crashed into buildings?

And notice how tha Main Stream media ignored the fact this information
came up on Clinton's watch? Just didn't happen on his watch.

And what about the timing of the attacks. Even if Bush could have run out
of the school, jumped into AF1 and started barking orders, what would his
orders have been? Shoot down any aircraft thaty looks like it's off
course? They'd have been shooting down planes in Kansas!!! There was
simply not enough time to react.

Yes, Bush *may* be the only one who can order the shooting down of a
civilian airliner. But which ones do you take shots at? You risk 2-500
people because you *think* the plane may be off course and headed for a
target?

*YOU* wanna make that decision????

[JTEM]

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Conservative Man
Oops. Notice how the "mainstream media" version
accidentially drops mention of the fact that they knew
these planes would be crashed into buildings?

And notice how tha Main Stream media ignored the fact this
information came up on Clinton's watch?

No I didn't. In fact, there's been no shortage of stories detailing
the threat from foreign terrorism during the Clinton years.
Prior to 9/11, there was no shortage of stories detailing the
Republican attacks on Clinton for dealing with the terrorist
threat.

Clinton's top terrorist man, Clarke, was still working for the
federal government after Clinton left office. What Clinton
knew, Bush knew, and Bush knew it *Long* before 9/11.

The difference? Clinton was gone. It was no longer Clinton's
job. No, the Republican-controlled congress never passed
his anti-terrorism plans (until after 9/11), but it was no longer
his job to try and change the minds of the Republicans.

[Michael Marxist Moore]

Kerry grandfather found dead in public restroom!




Fred Kerry, Senator Kerry's Grandfather was found dead in a men's room
in Boston, a single bullet wound to the head.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Below is from "Tour of Duty", a book about Senator Kerry:

The story of Richard Kerry's rise is one of overcoming obstacles. Born
in 1915 in Brookline, Massachusetts - the same Boston suburb where
John F. Kennedy was born two years later - Richard Kerry was a
handsome, erudite boy, always fighting against the odds. His father,
Fredrick A. Kerry, was actually a Czech Jew named Fritz Kohn who had
fled the aggressive Austro-Hungarian Empire in 1905, brutalized by
anti-Semitism... it seemed, to the outside world, that the Kerry
family exemplified the American dream.

That notion was brutally dispelled on November 23, 1921, when a
depressed Fred Kerry, wandered into the Copley Plaza Hotel in Boston,
walked into the men's room, and shot himself in the head.

from:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/chap1/tourofduty.htm



--------
Liberals Hate America!

[Win With The GOP!!!!]

Do you feel safer now than you did 4 years ago?

Don't kid yourself, the "terrorist threat" didn't magically
materialize only on 9/11. There was always a threat.

But you do feel safer now than you did four years ago?

Do you feel safer now after all the laws that were passed,
all the new money that was spent, the more than 1,000
American service men & women killed? Do you feel safer
now, with a new $40 billion government agency, then you
did four years ago?

How many people lost their jobs?

Go on. 9/11 was the single greatest failure in the American
goernments history. How many people lost their jobs over
it?

Two year old intelligence warned of plans to crash civilian
airliners into building. Clinton's terrorism Czar was still on
the payroll, the Bush administration knew everything Clinton
knew.

For months before 9/11 the U.S. & British intelligence were
warning that terrorist were already INSIDE the United States
working on a plan to hijack airliners.

One month before 9/11 one of the hijackers was arrested in
a flight school, where he was learning to fly a civilian
airliner but not to land.

Who lost their job over this?

Nobody.

Do you feel safer now than you did four years ago?

You shouldn't. You're not safer. You're at greater risk.

[Tim Farrow]

All the right has is fear. Fear fear fear

Post by Win With The GOP!!!!
Do you feel safer now than you did 4 years ago?
Don't kid yourself, the "terrorist threat" didn't magically
materialize only on 9/11. There was always a threat.
But you do feel safer now than you did four years ago?
Do you feel safer now after all the laws that were passed,
all the new money that was spent, the more than 1,000
American service men & women killed? Do you feel safer
now, with a new $40 billion government agency, then you
did four years ago?
How many people lost their jobs?
Go on. 9/11 was the single greatest failure in the American
goernments history. How many people lost their jobs over
it?
Two year old intelligence warned of plans to crash civilian
airliners into building. Clinton's terrorism Czar was still on
the payroll, the Bush administration knew everything Clinton
knew.
For months before 9/11 the U.S. & British intelligence were
warning that terrorist were already INSIDE the United States
working on a plan to hijack airliners.
One month before 9/11 one of the hijackers was arrested in
a flight school, where he was learning to fly a civilian
airliner but not to land.
Who lost their job over this?
Nobody.
Do you feel safer now than you did four years ago?
You shouldn't. You're not safer. You're at greater risk.

[OrionCA]

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:19:41 -0400, "Win With The GOP!!!!"
<***@gaydar.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>

Don't you have a queen's ass to kiss, limey? Why are you interfering
with a US election?

--
Kerry nails himself:

"Don't get suckered into the how many years you've been
in one job or this job" debate, Kerry said. "You've got
people in [Washington] who have been in one job [for]
30 years of what you call experience, and they have done
nothing, They don't stand for anything and they don't
know how to fight."

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1802&u=/washpost/20040711/ts_washpost/a41190_2004jul10&printer=1

[JTEM]

Post by OrionCA
Don't you have a queen's ass to kiss, limey?

That's a new one. I thought it was the French we were all
supposed to hate?

Post by OrionCA
Why are you interfering with a US election?

Because I'm an American. Duh.

1998, Right after Osama Bin Laden blew up two U.S.
embassies in Africa, killing over 200 people:

| Indeed, to this day, those involved in the decision to
| give the Afghan rebels access to a fortune in covert
| funding and top-level combat weaponry continue to
| defend that move in the context of the Cold War. Sen.
| Orrin Hatch, a senior Republican on the Senate
| Intelligence Committee making those decisions, told
| my colleague Robert Windrem that he would make the
| same call again today even knowing what bin Laden
| would do subsequently. "It was worth it," he said."
| http://www.msnbc.com/news/190144.asp?cp1=1#BODY

Not six months before 9/11:

| A senior State Department official told CNN that the U.S.
| government made a mistake last year by focusing too tightly
| on bin Laden and "personalizing terrorism ... describing
| parts of the elephant and not the whole beast."
| http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/04/30/terrorism.state.dept/

That's right, Clinton was focusing "too tightly" on Osama
Bin Laden, according to the Bush administration. Clinton
made a "Mistake" by "Focusing too tightly" on Bin Laden,
and Bush did not repeat this "Mistake."

[Hanoi Jane Fonda]

DemocRATs PANIC! Economy Is On A Roll ! Liberals Hate America!!


Watch the DemocRATs sink into despair, to cry out in the night and
gnash their teeth in great sorrow when they learn that the people are
doing very well -- that the country is experiencing sustained and
increasing good fortune: "The country is on a roll."

"The Bush Shall Appear In The Rose Garden For Four More." -Gospacho

***

Greenspan Says U.S. Growth Solid
----------------------------------------------

By Glenn Somerville

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. economy has entered a sustainable
expansion that is creating some price pressures, but inflation does
not now pose a major threat, Federal Reserve (news - web sites)
Chairman Alan Greenspan (news - web sites) told Congress on Tuesday.

Greenspan said an apparent recent slip in consumer spending likely
stemmed from higher energy costs and will probably prove short-lived.

In remarks prepared for the Senate Banking Committee, the Fed chief
noted that policy-makers said in June that interest rates likely will
rise at a "measured" pace but said the U.S. central bank will respond
as needed to check inflation.

"Not only has economic activity quickened, but the expansion has
become more broad-based and has produced notable gains in employment,"
the Fed chief said in his semiannual review of monetary policy.

He said while some of the price pressures are due to temporary
factors, he couldn't be sure inflation would stay benign in the face
of low interest rates.

Economists saw his take on the economy as upbeat.

"It looks like Mr. Greenspan is saying the slowdown in the economy
will be short-lived and that suggests that the Fed will probably
continue to raise rates," said Gary Thayer, chief economist at A.G.
Edwards & Sons in St. Louis.

The dollar rose against the euro on Greenspan's remarks while bond
prices eased.

"The evident strengthening in demand that underlies this improved
performance doubtless has been a factor contributing to the rise in
inflation this year," Greenspan said. "But inflation also seems to
have been boosted by transitory factors such as the surge in energy
prices."

He said recent price increases appeared in many cases to be a result
of businesses attempting to raise profit margins rather than due to
increased production costs.

"For the moment, the modest upward path of unit labor costs does not
appear to threaten longer-term price stability, especially if current
exceptionally high profit margins begin to come under more intense
competitive pressures at home and from abroad," Greenspan said.

"But we cannot be certain that this benign environment will persist
and that there are not more deep-seated forces emerging as a
consequence of prolonged monetary accommodation," he added.

The Fed cut rates to a 1958 low of 1 percent by mid-2003 after a
13-step process that began in 2001. At its last policy session on June
29-30, it began reversing course by lifting its official federal funds
rate a quarter percentage point.

More rate rises are expected later this year, though analysts are
divided about the number and size. Greenspan said policy-makers will
be keeping a close eye on costs and prices as it weighs whether a
faster-operating economy generates more cost pressures.


http://tinyurl.com/6zbn6

***

[commutator]

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Conservative Man

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Daniel Kolle
Ummm... excuse me. What the hell could Bush do?

I said the very same thing. Everyone who needed to be
mobilized already *was* mobilized!

Fighter jets? AA facilities at the pentagon? They needed prez
authority.

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Conservative Man
That's not actually true. Bush was the only man who could
authorize the shoot-down of a civilian airliner. Period. Only
luck saved us from an airliner crashing into the containment
wall of a nuclear power plant, and certainly not Bush.
| WASHINGTON -- Exactly two years before the
| Sept. 11 attacks, a federal report warned the executive
| branch that Osama bin Laden's terrorists might hijack
| an airliner and dive bomb it into the Pentagon or other
| government building.
| http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0517-06.htm
| (CBS) President Bush was told in the months before the
| Sept. 11 attacks that Osama bin Laden's terrorist network
| might hijack U.S. passenger planes - information which
| prompted the administration to issue an alert to federal
| agencies - but not the American public.
| http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/16/attack/main509294.shtml
Oops. Notice how the "mainstream media" version
accidentially drops mention of the fact that they knew
these planes would be crashed into buildings?

And notice how tha Main Stream media ignored the fact this information
came up on Clinton's watch? Just didn't happen on his watch.

True, training for the attack occurred on Billy's watch. How does
this vindicate Bush?

Post by Vash The Stampede
And what about the timing of the attacks. Even if Bush could have run out
of the school, jumped into AF1 and started barking orders, what would his
orders have been? Shoot down any aircraft thaty looks like it's off
course? They'd have been shooting down planes in Kansas!!! There was
simply not enough time to react.
Yes, Bush *may* be the only one who can order the shooting down of a
civilian airliner. But which ones do you take shots at? You risk 2-500
people because you *think* the plane may be off course and headed for a
target?
*YOU* wanna make that decision????

Bush WAS the only one with the authority. Before the changes made in
the power dynamic Rumsfeld would have had authority but once the Bush
admin moved in the changed it so only the prez could order such a
move.

Which Ones?!?!? You hear we're under attack. You now follow the
protocols layed out by FEMA and other national agencies. All flights
are grounded. Planes in the air are informed to maintain heights
above _____ and give extra wide berth to secured airspace (like the
pentagon). Planes are informed to enter holding patterns at nearest
airports. Planes are informed to maintain communications at all times
and report any suspicious activity on their flight. In the mean time
fighters are scrambled and sent to escort planes which are considered
suspicious due to low altitude, proximity to secure airspace or lack
of communications. Pilots themselves make last visual attempt at
communication with airliners. Failing acknowledgement of orders
and/or lack of communication the plane is taken out. Only two planes
on 9/11 had no communications, both were terrorist-controlled.

The exact orders he had to give would have been pretty simple. 1.
"Ground all aircraft, believed some may be in terrorist hands and
being used for kamikaze attacks. If necessary, take down aircraft
which are suspicious." The protocol I laid out above is what the
air-traffic controllers would do automatically when informed that
number of aircraft believed hijacked.
2. "Scramble fighters, patrol around suspected targets."
When the air-traffic guys reported that 2 planes would not respond
than order jets to intercept these liners and request they immediately
raise altitude and proceed to nearest airport. pilots make last
visual attempt at communication before given authority to drop the
plane 3. "take the shot". It's pretty simple really and effective as
well.

Of course presidential authority MUST be given to implement the above
and guess what? IT WASN'T. BUSH SAT ON HIS ASS.

A lot of people I know remember having a conversation kinda like this
when they heard the news (first jet):
"Do you suppose it was an accident?"
"No fucking clue"
"It's a hard accident to have..."
"Well, if the Americans don't know if it's accidental they'd better
have fighters in the air soon"
Unfortunately Bush never had this 'epiphany'

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by commutator

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Conservative Man

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Daniel Kolle
Ummm... excuse me. What the hell could Bush do?

I said the very same thing. Everyone who needed to be
mobilized already *was* mobilized!

Fighter jets? AA facilities at the pentagon? They needed prez
authority.

Not in a case of National Emergency.

Post by commutator

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Conservative Man
That's not actually true. Bush was the only man who could
authorize the shoot-down of a civilian airliner. Period. Only
luck saved us from an airliner crashing into the containment
wall of a nuclear power plant, and certainly not Bush.
| WASHINGTON -- Exactly two years before the
| Sept. 11 attacks, a federal report warned the executive
| branch that Osama bin Laden's terrorists might hijack
| an airliner and dive bomb it into the Pentagon or other
| government building.
| http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0517-06.htm
| (CBS) President Bush was told in the months before the
| Sept. 11 attacks that Osama bin Laden's terrorist network
| might hijack U.S. passenger planes - information which
| prompted the administration to issue an alert to federal
| agencies - but not the American public.
| http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/16/attack/main509294.shtml
Oops. Notice how the "mainstream media" version
accidentially drops mention of the fact that they knew
these planes would be crashed into buildings?

And notice how tha Main Stream media ignored the fact this information
came up on Clinton's watch? Just didn't happen on his watch.

True, training for the attack occurred on Billy's watch. How does
this vindicate Bush?

Training for the attack. So who was trained. If there was a procedure in
place, it would have been followed. Why wasn't it? Remember, by this time
we're in National Emergency.

Post by commutator

Post by Vash The Stampede
And what about the timing of the attacks. Even if Bush could have run
out of the school, jumped into AF1 and started barking orders, what
would his orders have been? Shoot down any aircraft thaty looks like
it's off course? They'd have been shooting down planes in Kansas!!!
There was simply not enough time to react.
Yes, Bush *may* be the only one who can order the shooting down of a
civilian airliner. But which ones do you take shots at? You risk 2-500
people because you *think* the plane may be off course and headed for a
target?
*YOU* wanna make that decision????

Bush WAS the only one with the authority. Before the changes made in
the power dynamic Rumsfeld would have had authority but once the Bush
admin moved in the changed it so only the prez could order such a move.
Which Ones?!?!? You hear we're under attack. You now follow the
protocols layed out by FEMA and other national agencies. All flights
are grounded. Planes in the air are informed to maintain heights above
_____ and give extra wide berth to secured airspace (like the pentagon).
Planes are informed to enter holding patterns at nearest airports.
Planes are informed to maintain communications at all times and report
any suspicious activity on their flight. In the mean time fighters are
scrambled and sent to escort planes which are considered suspicious due
to low altitude, proximity to secure airspace or lack of communications.
Pilots themselves make last visual attempt at communication with
airliners. Failing acknowledgement of orders and/or lack of
communication the plane is taken out. Only two planes on 9/11 had no
communications, both were terrorist-controlled.
The exact orders he had to give would have been pretty simple. 1.
"Ground all aircraft, believed some may be in terrorist hands and being
used for kamikaze attacks. If necessary, take down aircraft which are
suspicious." The protocol I laid out above is what the air-traffic
controllers would do automatically when informed that number of aircraft
believed hijacked. 2. "Scramble fighters, patrol around suspected
targets." When the air-traffic guys reported that 2 planes would not
respond than order jets to intercept these liners and request they
immediately raise altitude and proceed to nearest airport. pilots make
last visual attempt at communication before given authority to drop the
plane 3. "take the shot". It's pretty simple really and effective as
well.
Of course presidential authority MUST be given to implement the above
and guess what? IT WASN'T. BUSH SAT ON HIS ASS.

Odd, I remember hearing that was *exactly* the plan that was followed
after the second plane struck the WTC. I was home that day and watched the
whole thing firsthand on 2 tv's switching from CNN to Fox to NBC to ABC.
So you're saying the plan implemented by the Clinton administration and
carried over to the Bush administration worked?

I saw this plan implemented immediately; I mean I *SAW* it. You *SAW* Bush
sitting on his ass?

Face it: One plane hits the WTC. A Tragic Accident. Your fisrt thought is
"WE'RE UNDER ATTACK!" On Sept 11, 2001? No. You think, "A pilot screwed
up" "there was a mecahnical failure" "ATC screwed up"

as a matter of fact, the planes were scrambled *JUST* *BEFORE* the second
plane hit the WTC. I live near an AFB, and an inordinate number of planes
were launched within minutes before the second plane hit.

Post by commutator
A lot of people I know remember having a conversation kinda like this
when they heard the news (first jet): "Do you suppose it was an
accident?"
"No fucking clue"
"It's a hard accident to have..."
"Well, if the Americans don't know if it's accidental they'd better have
fighters in the air soon"
Unfortunately Bush never had this 'epiphany'

See above. Somebody did.

[commutator]

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by commutator

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Conservative Man

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Daniel Kolle
Ummm... excuse me. What the hell could Bush do?

I said the very same thing. Everyone who needed to be
mobilized already *was* mobilized!

Fighter jets? AA facilities at the pentagon? They needed prez
authority.

Not in a case of National Emergency.

Only Bush had the authority to order aircraft shot down. check
factcheck

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by commutator

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Conservative Man
That's not actually true. Bush was the only man who could
authorize the shoot-down of a civilian airliner. Period. Only
luck saved us from an airliner crashing into the containment
wall of a nuclear power plant, and certainly not Bush.
| WASHINGTON -- Exactly two years before the
| Sept. 11 attacks, a federal report warned the executive
| branch that Osama bin Laden's terrorists might hijack
| an airliner and dive bomb it into the Pentagon or other
| government building.
| http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0517-06.htm
| (CBS) President Bush was told in the months before the
| Sept. 11 attacks that Osama bin Laden's terrorist network
| might hijack U.S. passenger planes - information which
| prompted the administration to issue an alert to federal
| agencies - but not the American public.
| http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/16/attack/main509294.shtml
Oops. Notice how the "mainstream media" version
accidentially drops mention of the fact that they knew
these planes would be crashed into buildings?

And notice how tha Main Stream media ignored the fact this information
came up on Clinton's watch? Just didn't happen on his watch.

True, training for the attack occurred on Billy's watch. How does
this vindicate Bush?

Training for the attack. So who was trained.

??? The al queda pilots. counterfeiters, etc.

Post by Vash The Stampede
If there was a procedure in
place, it would have been followed. Why wasn't it? Remember, by this time
we're in National Emergency.

Prez authority is needed.

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by commutator

Post by Vash The Stampede
And what about the timing of the attacks. Even if Bush could have run
out of the school, jumped into AF1 and started barking orders, what
would his orders have been? Shoot down any aircraft thaty looks like
it's off course? They'd have been shooting down planes in Kansas!!!
There was simply not enough time to react.
Yes, Bush *may* be the only one who can order the shooting down of a
civilian airliner. But which ones do you take shots at? You risk 2-500
people because you *think* the plane may be off course and headed for a
target?
*YOU* wanna make that decision????

Bush WAS the only one with the authority. Before the changes made in
the power dynamic Rumsfeld would have had authority but once the Bush
admin moved in the changed it so only the prez could order such a move.
Which Ones?!?!? You hear we're under attack. You now follow the
protocols layed out by FEMA and other national agencies. All flights
are grounded. Planes in the air are informed to maintain heights above
_____ and give extra wide berth to secured airspace (like the pentagon).
Planes are informed to enter holding patterns at nearest airports.
Planes are informed to maintain communications at all times and report
any suspicious activity on their flight. In the mean time fighters are
scrambled and sent to escort planes which are considered suspicious due
to low altitude, proximity to secure airspace or lack of communications.
Pilots themselves make last visual attempt at communication with
airliners. Failing acknowledgement of orders and/or lack of
communication the plane is taken out. Only two planes on 9/11 had no
communications, both were terrorist-controlled.
The exact orders he had to give would have been pretty simple. 1.
"Ground all aircraft, believed some may be in terrorist hands and being
used for kamikaze attacks. If necessary, take down aircraft which are
suspicious." The protocol I laid out above is what the air-traffic
controllers would do automatically when informed that number of aircraft
believed hijacked. 2. "Scramble fighters, patrol around suspected
targets." When the air-traffic guys reported that 2 planes would not
respond than order jets to intercept these liners and request they
immediately raise altitude and proceed to nearest airport. pilots make
last visual attempt at communication before given authority to drop the
plane 3. "take the shot". It's pretty simple really and effective as
well.
Of course presidential authority MUST be given to implement the above
and guess what? IT WASN'T. BUSH SAT ON HIS ASS.

Odd, I remember hearing that was *exactly* the plan that was followed
after the second plane struck the WTC. I was home that day and watched the
whole thing firsthand on 2 tv's switching from CNN to Fox to NBC to ABC.
So you're saying the plan implemented by the Clinton administration and
carried over to the Bush administration worked?

???? what???? what are you talking about here?

Post by Vash The Stampede
I saw this plan implemented immediately; I mean I *SAW* it. You *SAW* Bush
sitting on his ass?

The 7 minutes of time is on record as is the 27 minute photo-op.

Post by Vash The Stampede
Face it: One plane hits the WTC. A Tragic Accident. Your fisrt thought is
"WE'RE UNDER ATTACK!" On Sept 11, 2001? No. You think, "A pilot screwed
up" "there was a mecahnical failure" "ATC screwed up"

No AS PRESIDENT you think, "I hope it was an accident but I can't take
that chance it's my duty to guard America. Ground aircraft and
investigate.

Post by Vash The Stampede
as a matter of fact, the planes were scrambled *JUST* *BEFORE* the second
plane hit the WTC. I live near an AFB, and an inordinate number of planes
were launched within minutes before the second plane hit.

After they realized they had no contact with 3 other civilian
airliners. Those planes could have been launched earlier and had no
authority to fire until Bush recovered himself.

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by commutator
A lot of people I know remember having a conversation kinda like this
when they heard the news (first jet): "Do you suppose it was an
accident?"
"No fucking clue"
"It's a hard accident to have..."
"Well, if the Americans don't know if it's accidental they'd better have
fighters in the air soon"
Unfortunately Bush never had this 'epiphany'

See above. Somebody did.

But not Bush, that's the problem.

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by commutator

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by commutator

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Conservative Man

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Daniel Kolle
Ummm... excuse me. What the hell could Bush do?

I said the very same thing. Everyone who needed to be
mobilized already *was* mobilized!

Fighter jets? AA facilities at the pentagon? They needed prez
authority.

Not in a case of National Emergency.

Only Bush had the authority to order aircraft shot down. check
factcheck

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by commutator

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Conservative Man
That's not actually true. Bush was the only man who could
authorize the shoot-down of a civilian airliner. Period. Only
luck saved us from an airliner crashing into the containment
wall of a nuclear power plant, and certainly not Bush.
| WASHINGTON -- Exactly two years before the
| Sept. 11 attacks, a federal report warned the executive
| branch that Osama bin Laden's terrorists might hijack
| an airliner and dive bomb it into the Pentagon or other
| government building.
| http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0517-06.htm
| (CBS) President Bush was told in the months before the
| Sept. 11 attacks that Osama bin Laden's terrorist network
| might hijack U.S. passenger planes - information which
| prompted the administration to issue an alert to federal
| agencies - but not the American public.
| http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/16/attack/main509294.shtml
Oops. Notice how the "mainstream media" version
accidentially drops mention of the fact that they knew
these planes would be crashed into buildings?

And notice how tha Main Stream media ignored the fact this information
came up on Clinton's watch? Just didn't happen on his watch.

True, training for the attack occurred on Billy's watch. How does
this vindicate Bush?

Training for the attack. So who was trained.

??? The al queda pilots. counterfeiters, etc.

So youre' saying *Clinton* dropped the ball? The warnings came up on his
watch. His administration didn't train anyone? And those people didn't
pass the information along to the new administration?

Post by commutator

Post by Vash The Stampede
If there was a procedure in
place, it would have been followed. Why wasn't it? Remember, by this
time we're in National Emergency.

Prez authority is needed.

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by commutator

Post by Vash The Stampede
And what about the timing of the attacks. Even if Bush could have
run out of the school, jumped into AF1 and started barking orders,
what would his orders have been? Shoot down any aircraft thaty looks
like it's off course? They'd have been shooting down planes in
Kansas!!! There was simply not enough time to react.
Yes, Bush *may* be the only one who can order the shooting down of a
civilian airliner. But which ones do you take shots at? You risk
2-500 people because you *think* the plane may be off course and
headed for a target?
*YOU* wanna make that decision????

Bush WAS the only one with the authority. Before the changes made in
the power dynamic Rumsfeld would have had authority but once the Bush
admin moved in the changed it so only the prez could order such a move.
Which Ones?!?!? You hear we're under attack. You now follow the
protocols layed out by FEMA and other national agencies. All flights
are grounded. Planes in the air are informed to maintain heights
above _____ and give extra wide berth to secured airspace (like the
pentagon).
Planes are informed to enter holding patterns at nearest airports.
Planes are informed to maintain communications at all times and
report any suspicious activity on their flight. In the mean time
fighters are scrambled and sent to escort planes which are considered
suspicious due to low altitude, proximity to secure airspace or lack
of communications.
Pilots themselves make last visual attempt at communication with
airliners. Failing acknowledgement of orders and/or lack of
communication the plane is taken out. Only two planes on 9/11 had no
communications, both were terrorist-controlled.
The exact orders he had to give would have been pretty simple. 1.
"Ground all aircraft, believed some may be in terrorist hands and
being used for kamikaze attacks. If necessary, take down aircraft
which are suspicious." The protocol I laid out above is what the
air-traffic controllers would do automatically when informed that
number of aircraft believed hijacked. 2. "Scramble fighters, patrol
around suspected targets." When the air-traffic guys reported that 2
planes would not respond than order jets to intercept these liners
and request they immediately raise altitude and proceed to nearest
airport. pilots make last visual attempt at communication before
given authority to drop the plane 3. "take the shot". It's pretty
simple really and effective as well.
Of course presidential authority MUST be given to implement the above
and guess what? IT WASN'T. BUSH SAT ON HIS ASS.

Odd, I remember hearing that was *exactly* the plan that was followed
after the second plane struck the WTC. I was home that day and watched
the whole thing firsthand on 2 tv's switching from CNN to Fox to NBC to
ABC. So you're saying the plan implemented by the Clinton
administration and carried over to the Bush administration worked?

???? what???? what are you talking about here?

'The Plan'. The plan implemented by the Clinton Administration. And, as I
said, after the second plane hit the WTC the plan went into effect. It's
all right there, right above.

Post by commutator

Post by Vash The Stampede
I saw this plan implemented immediately; I mean I *SAW* it. You *SAW*
Bush sitting on his ass?

The 7 minutes of time is on record as is the 27 minute photo-op.

And? Seven minutes. BFHD. How long did it take to respond to Pearl Harbor?
What the hell is *seven* minutes? It takes me longer than that to decide
which type of coffee I want. Geeze.

Post by commutator

Post by Vash The Stampede
Face it: One plane hits the WTC. A Tragic Accident. Your fisrt thought
is "WE'RE UNDER ATTACK!" On Sept 11, 2001? No. You think, "A pilot
screwed up" "there was a mecahnical failure" "ATC screwed up"

No AS PRESIDENT you think, "I hope it was an accident but I can't take
that chance it's my duty to guard America. Ground aircraft and
investigate.

Yup. Right. Was there *any* reason to believe we were under attack when
the first plane hit?

Post by commutator

Post by Vash The Stampede
as a matter of fact, the planes were scrambled *JUST* *BEFORE* the
second plane hit the WTC. I live near an AFB, and an inordinate number
of planes were launched within minutes before the second plane hit.

After they realized they had no contact with 3 other civilian airliners.
Those planes could have been launched earlier and had no authority to
fire until Bush recovered himself.

Gee, I'd say that's pretty good! you mean, as soon as they realized they
had no contact with 3 planes out of *thousands* in the sky that day they
shut things down! When each ATC has to keep track of approx 30 to 50
aircraft in tha airspace, *one* in New York, *one* in Pennsylvania and
*one* in Maryland didn't raise a ruckus? Equipment failure, pilot switched
transponder off, radio off, etc? These things happen *every* *day* in the
air over America! I could tell you more, but you'd never get on a plane
again.

Post by commutator

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by commutator
A lot of people I know remember having a conversation kinda like this
when they heard the news (first jet): "Do you suppose it was an
accident?"
"No fucking clue"
"It's a hard accident to have..."
"Well, if the Americans don't know if it's accidental they'd better
have fighters in the air soon"
Unfortunately Bush never had this 'epiphany'

See above. Somebody did.

But not Bush, that's the problem.

And you know this how? Besides, what difference does it make? The planes
were in the air. I heard them. I saw them. So somebody slacked informing
Bush. Why blame him? Maybe they assessed the information as
non-threatening and decided not to tell him.

What galls me is thet all of you say 'It was Bush's fault. He sat on his
ass for seven minutes'.

1. Maybe it *wasn't* Bushs fault! Maybe it was someone else's!

2. WTF is Seven minutes? What would it have stopped? On Sept 11, 2001, the
Prez of the US is not going to bring the nation to a screeching halt
because one plane hit a building! He probably was even notified of it!
What do you think? An airliner hits a building in East Cupcake and
someoone says 'We have to inform the President *right* *now*? Doesn't
happen. There's a whole lot of other things that happens first. The
President generally does get notified of any plane crash, and I'm sure
they told him about the WTC long before they told Clinton about a glue
factory in Ohio, but someone probably read it as an accident and let it
slide.

Need to learn about what you're talkning about before making
generalizations.

[Godsvetter]

Post by duke

Post by LMN
John Kerry has waded into an issue raised by Michael Moore in his film
"Fahrenheit 9/11," namely, President Bush's sitting for seven minutes in a
Florida classroom after being told "the country is under attack." Republicans
are waxing indignant, of course.

Say, buddy, how do you know he wasn't told to sit by for a few minutes. After all, they
had to react to the possibility that there was more coming, and there was in Washington,
so the Secret Service had to make plans for a deviation.
You poor atheists really do come up short on planning.

Post by LMN
Watergate was outrageous but it still did not carry the possibility of utter
devastation, like a President's freezing at the very moment we needed his
immediate focus on an attack on the United States.

In what way was the President hindered? He had world wide communications at his fingers
in the classroom.
NOt a bright concern on your part.

Post by LMN
This is an issue about the ultimate presidential duty, acting in an emergency.
If nothing else in Washington is nonpartisan, this should be.

That President Bush did. Say thank you.

Post by LMN
He was "gathering his thoughts." This was a moment a President should have
imagined a thousand times.

Why, when the whole world was taken by surprise?

Post by LMN
I cannot see how someone who considers himself a conservative can defend George
Bush's inaction. Conservatives pride themselves on being clear-eyed and
decisive. They don't do nuance, and they respect toughness.

They again you obviously lack the knowledge to be bright about it.
Either you or one of your equally unknowing buddies suckered you into embarrassing
yourself.

How A Bout He Shit In His Pants on 9/11 and was afraid the kids might
see a brown stain when he stood up

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by Godsvetter

Post by duke

Post by LMN
John Kerry has waded into an issue raised by Michael Moore in his film
"Fahrenheit 9/11," namely, President Bush's sitting for seven minutes in a
Florida classroom after being told "the country is under attack." Republicans
are waxing indignant, of course.

Say, buddy, how do you know he wasn't told to sit by for a few minutes. After all, they
had to react to the possibility that there was more coming, and there was in Washington,
so the Secret Service had to make plans for a deviation.
You poor atheists really do come up short on planning.

Post by LMN
Watergate was outrageous but it still did not carry the possibility of utter
devastation, like a President's freezing at the very moment we needed his
immediate focus on an attack on the United States.

In what way was the President hindered? He had world wide communications at his fingers
in the classroom.
NOt a bright concern on your part.

Post by LMN
This is an issue about the ultimate presidential duty, acting in an emergency.
If nothing else in Washington is nonpartisan, this should be.

That President Bush did. Say thank you.

Post by LMN
He was "gathering his thoughts." This was a moment a President should have
imagined a thousand times.

Why, when the whole world was taken by surprise?

Post by LMN
I cannot see how someone who considers himself a conservative can defend George
Bush's inaction. Conservatives pride themselves on being clear-eyed and
decisive. They don't do nuance, and they respect toughness.

They again you obviously lack the knowledge to be bright about it.
Either you or one of your equally unknowing buddies suckered you into embarrassing
yourself.

How A Bout He Shit In His Pants on 9/11 and was afraid the kids might
see a brown stain when he stood up

Isn't there anyone in here with a Brain?

[Phillip Brown]

Post by duke

Post by LMN
John Kerry has waded into an issue raised by Michael Moore in his film
"Fahrenheit 9/11," namely, President Bush's sitting for seven minutes in
a Florida classroom after being told "the country is under attack."
Republicans are waxing indignant, of course.

Say, buddy, how do you know he wasn't told to sit by for a few minutes.

And I bet Roosevelt was told to sit back and finished his lunch, before
reacting to the news of the attack on Pearl Harbour.

Post by duke
After all, they had to react to the possibility that there was more
coming, and there was in Washington, so the Secret Service had to make
plans for a deviation.

Deviation?? From where??

They must have forgotten about that Airforce One thingy - you know, that
airborne command post that is designed to remain airborne more-or-less
indefinately.

phillip brown

[Four! More! Years!]

Post by Phillip Brown
And I bet Roosevelt was told to sit back and finished
his lunch, before reacting to the news of the attack on
Pearl Harbour.

Roosevelt & Bush reacted differently.

Roosevelt: "Intelligence says the Japanese are going to
attack us. It looks like it'll happen at the Philippines.
Quick, contact MacCarthur and warn him. Tell him to
prepeare for such an attack."

Bush: "Intelligence is telling us that Al-Qaeda operatives
are inside the U.S. and working on a plan to hijack civilian
airliners. Intelligence also reports that these planes will
be crashed into buildings or other ground targets. Washington
is a likely target. I think I'll go on the longest Presidential
vacation in U.S. history. This being President stuff is hard!"

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by Four! More! Years!

Post by Phillip Brown
And I bet Roosevelt was told to sit back and finished
his lunch, before reacting to the news of the attack on
Pearl Harbour.

Roosevelt & Bush reacted differently.
Roosevelt: "Intelligence says the Japanese are going to
attack us. It looks like it'll happen at the Philippines.
Quick, contact MacCarthur and warn him. Tell him to
prepeare for such an attack."
Bush: "Intelligence is telling us that Al-Qaeda operatives
are inside the U.S. and working on a plan to hijack civilian
airliners. Intelligence also reports that these planes will
be crashed into buildings or other ground targets. Washington
is a likely target. I think I'll go on the longest Presidential
vacation in U.S. history. This being President stuff is hard!"

Where did this crap come from???

[JTEM]

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Four! More! Years!
Bush: "Intelligence is telling us that Al-Qaeda operatives
are inside the U.S. and working on a plan to hijack civilian
airliners. Intelligence also reports that these planes will
be crashed into buildings or other ground targets. Washington
is a likely target. I think I'll go on the longest Presidential
vacation in U.S. history. This being President stuff is hard!"

Where did this crap come from???

Reality.

It's all on record.

[Michael Marxist Moore]

Kerry Meeting With Communists Violated US Law, Says Author
By Marc Morano


The 1970 meeting that current Democratic presidential candidate John
Kerry conducted with North Vietnamese communists may have violated
several U.S. laws, according to an author and researcher who has
studied the issue.

Kerry met with representatives from "both delegations" of the
Vietnamese peace process in Paris in 1970, according to Kerry's own
testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on April 22,
1971. But Kerry's meetings with the Vietnamese delegations were in
direct violation of laws which forbade private citizens from
negotiating with foreign powers, according to researcher and author
Jerry Corsi, who began studying the anti-war movement in the early
1970s.

According to Corsi, Kerry violated U.S. code 18 U.S.C. 953. "A U.S.
citizen cannot go abroad and negotiate with a foreign power," Corsi
told

By Kerry's own admission, he met in 1970 with delegations from the
North Vietnamese communist government and discussed how the Vietnam
War should be stopped.

Kerry explained to Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman J.
William Fulbright in a question and answer session on Capitol Hill a
year after his Paris meetings that the war needed to be stopped
"immediately and unilaterally." Then Kerry added, "I have been to
Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is
to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional
Revolutionary Government (PVR)."

However, both of the delegations to which Kerry referred were
communist. Neither included the U.S. allied, South Vietnamese or any
members of the U.S. delegation. The Democratic Republic of Vietnam was
the government of the North Vietnamese communists and the Provisional
Revolutionary Government
was an arm of the North Vietnamese government that included the
Vietcong.

Kerry did meet face-to-face with the PVR's negotiator Madam Nguyen Thi
Binh, according to his presidential campaign spokesman Michael Meehan.
Madam Binh's peace plan was being proposed by the North Vietnamese
communists as a way to bring a quick end to the war.

But Corsi alleged that Kerry's meeting with Madam Binh and the
government of North Vietnam was a direct violation of U.S. law.

"In [Kerry's] first meeting in 1970, meeting with Madam Binh, Kerry
was still a naval reservist -- not only a U.S. citizen, but a naval
reservist -- stepping outside the boundaries to meet with one of the
principle figures of our enemy in Vietnam, Madam Binh, and the Viet
Cong at the same time. [Former Nixon administration aide Henry]
Kissinger was trying to negotiate with them formally," Corsi told

Corsi's recent essay, titled "Kerry and the Paris Peace Talks,"
published on wintersoldier.com, details Kerry's meetings and the
possible violations of U.S. law.

Corsi also asserted that by 1971, Kerry may have violated another law
by completely adopting the rhetoric and objectives of the North
Vietnamese communists.

"Article three: Section three [of the U.S. Constitution], which
defines treason, says you cannot give support to the enemy in time of
war and here you have Kerry giving a press conference in Washington on
July 22, 1971 (a year after his meeting with the communist delegations
in Paris) advocating the North Vietnamese peace plan and saying that
is what President Nixon ought to accept," Corsi explained.

"If Madam Binh had been there herself at that press conference, she
would have said exactly what Kerry said. The only difference is she
would not have done it with a Boston accent," Corsi said.

The 7 Point Plan, was created by the North Vietnamese communists and
was nothing more than a "surrender" for the U.S., according to Corsi.

"You don't advocate that [7 point] plan unless you are on the
communist side. It was seen as surrender. [The U.S.] would have had to
pay reparations and agree that we essentially lost the war," Corsi
said.

"Kerry was openly advocating that the communist position was correct
and that we were wrong. He had become a spokesman for the communist
party," Corsi added.

Kerry's presidential campaign did not return repeated phone calls
seeking comment, but campaign spokesman Michael Meehan told the Boston
Globe in March that, "Kerry had no role whatsoever in the Paris peace
talks or negotiations."

"He did not engage in any negotiations and did not attend any session
of the talks," Meehan added.

Kerry "went to Paris on a private trip, where he had one brief meeting
with Madam Binh and others. In an effort to find facts, he learned
that status of the peace talks from their point of view and about any
progress in resolving the conflict, particularly as it related to the
fate of the POWs," Meehan added. Kerry was reportedly on his honeymoon
with his first wife Julia Thorne when he met with the communist
delegations.

But Corsi does not accept the Kerry campaign's explanation.

"[Kerry spokesman] Meehan made it sound like they were just there on a
honeymoon and they got a meeting with Madam Binh, but not every
American honeymooner got to meet with Madam Binh. Unless you had a
political objective and they identified you as somebody as
sympathetic, you were not going to get invited to a meeting with Madam
Binh," Corsi said.

"Kerry has skirted with the issue of violating these laws," Corsi
added. "[The Kerry campaign is] trying to fudge on the issue because
they don't want to come clean on it entirely."



----------
Liberals Hate America!

[Dead O Crats]

| A week later, Bush contacted Smith, and sold 212,140
| Harken shares for $4 per share, netting $848,560.
| Despite having been put on notice by the company
| lawyer of the importance of filing timely insider
| reports only a few months before, Bush waited eight
| months before filing the required forms on the sale
| with the SEC.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24411129

http://www.public-i.org/dtaweb/report.asp?ReportID=464&L1=10&L2=10&L3=0&L4=0
&L5=0

[Family Man]

Post by Dead O Crats
| A week later, Bush contacted Smith, and sold 212,140
| Harken shares for $4 per share, netting $848,560.
| Despite having been put on notice by the company
| lawyer of the importance of filing timely insider
| reports only a few months before, Bush waited eight
| months before filing the required forms on the sale
| with the SEC.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24411129

http://www.public-i.org/dtaweb/report.asp?ReportID=464&L1=10&L2=10&L3=0&L4=0

Post by Dead O Crats
&L5=0

Bush is the biggest anti-american, war-mongering, greedy ass this country
has ever known.

["'t-think-so.org" <r.u.safernow>]

Hehehehehehe hahahahahaha BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

oh man haha <sniff> hahaha

oh man, sorry I'm wiping the tears from my eyes hahaha

oh man, just the title of your post hahaha

oh man, it caused me to bust a gut laughing hehehehe

omg, that is just hilarious, oh man you made my day hahahaha

:-D

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 19:15:12 -0400, "Dead O Crats"

Post by Dead O Crats
| A week later, Bush contacted Smith, and sold 212,140
| Harken shares for $4 per share, netting $848,560.
| Despite having been put on notice by the company
| lawyer of the importance of filing timely insider
| reports only a few months before, Bush waited eight
| months before filing the required forms on the sale
| with the SEC.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24411129
http://www.public-i.org/dtaweb/report.asp?ReportID=464&L1=10&L2=10&L3=0&L4=0
&L5=0

[Vash The Stampede]

Post by JTEM

Post by Vash The Stampede

Post by Four! More! Years!
Bush: "Intelligence is telling us that Al-Qaeda operatives
are inside the U.S. and working on a plan to hijack civilian
airliners. Intelligence also reports that these planes will
be crashed into buildings or other ground targets. Washington
is a likely target. I think I'll go on the longest Presidential
vacation in U.S. history. This being President stuff is hard!"

Where did this crap come from???

Reality.
It's all on record.

Can I have a hit off that 'reality'?